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I don't think this is good advice, and I wouldn't advise anyone to follow in this person's footsteps. Smart people should think about doing stupid stuff, not n

by Eliezer 17y ago

I don't think this is good advice, and I wouldn't advise anyone to follow in this person's footsteps. Smart people should think about doing stupid stuff, not necessarily follow through and do it. Selling TV wall mounts online is not a very great contribution to human progress from someone who was experimenting with ferromagnetic fluids. This is advice on how to stay alive and make a living, not advice on how to achieve your full potential and help humanity.

weaksauce 17y ago
Everything you said is true, but being independently wealthy is a good way to be able to be able to work on the "academic" problems that you want to work on. Not that he couldn't have gone the researcher route at a school or business but that does not afford one as much leeway. After the site is up and running he can hire or outsource much of the day to day stuff if he is not looking to expand much.
davidwurtz 17y ago
Stupid does not mean "not worth it". Stupid means "obvious, and often overlooked". And plenty of "stupid" things do mankind some good. Amazon invested a whole lot in selling books online, and now they contribute significantly to our quality of life. That said, I acknowledge in the article that there should always be those aiming higher.
- amix 17y ago
  If you mean "obvious" then you should use "obvious" and not "stupid" - - because they are different words with different meaning... For example, selling books online is an obvious idea, but not "stupid" and it isn't easy either. Selling books online and creating Amazon is far from a simple achievement and something you could do without intellectual power or really hard work.
  - zach 17y ago
    No, I think "stupid" is right because it speaks to the prejudice that bright people hold against these kinds of endeavors. It is social conditioning but rarely examined as such.
Eliezer 17y ago
...however, what is important advice, is that smart people should not do the first thing that associates to "smart people stuff", like string theory. Also don't do the first thing that associates to "altruistic" or "unconventional" or "entrepreneur". Do a smart thing that most smart people aren't doing.
mechanical_fish 17y ago
Selling TV wall mounts online is not a very great contribution to human progress You speak like a person who has never had a grant proposal turned down. Congratulations! May you continue to enjoy your life in the ivory tower until retirement. However, for better understanding of how other people's lives work you may want to google Maslow's hierarchy of needs, where you will encounter the observation that a person who doesn't have a secure source of food and shelter often has a lot of trouble caring about their contribution to "human progress". A lot of people will hand you money in exchange for TV wall mounts. There are a lot fewer people who will hand you money in exchange for research data on ferrofluids, and there are a lot of people in line for that money.
codexon 17y ago
Unfortunately this is the flaw in western society today. The risk/reward ratio in science is out of wack. Philip Greenspun says this very succinctly in his article about why there aren't women in science. http://philip.greenspun.com/careers/women-in-science http://philip.greenspun.com/careers/women-in-science
Confusion 17y ago
Selling TV wall mounts online is not a very great contribution to human progress It doesn't seem like it is, but it may very well be a great contribution. If you make it easier for many people to find something, what do they do with the aggregate free time they now have on their hands? If you make it cheaper, what do they do with the aggregate 'unused' money? If the time and money enables yet another 'simple' contribution to freeing up time and money, then how far does this snowball roll? Perhaps it will end up freeing us to do humanitarian work, because there is really nothing else that requires our time and money? It's a similar question to: "What most reduces human suffering? If Eliezer keeps doing what he is doing or if he goes to Africa and helps people survive in a refugee camp?" It may turn out you are wrong about everything and helping in a camp would have been better for humanity. Hindsight is 20/20 here and the scale of effects does not allow one to properly estimate them.
FreeRadical 17y ago
I think doing 'stupid' stuff to gain a first successful venture is a good strategy because it may a)make you financially comfortable and therefore can focus on difficult stuff b)give you better access to capital when doing something more difficult
nfnaaron 17y ago
There is nothing wrong with making a living.

by Eliezer 17y ago

weaksauce 17y ago

Everything you said is true, but being independently wealthy is a good way to be able to be able to work on the "academic" problems that you want to work on. Not that he couldn't have gone the researcher route at a school or business but that does not afford one as much leeway. After the site is up and running he can hire or outsource much of the day to day stuff if he is not looking to expand much.

davidwurtz 17y ago

Stupid does not mean "not worth it". Stupid means "obvious, and often overlooked". And plenty of "stupid" things do mankind some good. Amazon invested a whole lot in selling books online, and now they contribute significantly to our quality of life. That said, I acknowledge in the article that there should always be those aiming higher.

amix 17y ago
If you mean "obvious" then you should use "obvious" and not "stupid" - - because they are different words with different meaning... For example, selling books online is an obvious idea, but not "stupid" and it isn't easy either. Selling books online and creating Amazon is far from a simple achievement and something you could do without intellectual power or really hard work.
- zach 17y ago
  No, I think "stupid" is right because it speaks to the prejudice that bright people hold against these kinds of endeavors. It is social conditioning but rarely examined as such.

Eliezer 17y ago

...however, what is important advice, is that smart people should not do the first thing that associates to "smart people stuff", like string theory. Also don't do the first thing that associates to "altruistic" or "unconventional" or "entrepreneur". Do a smart thing that most smart people aren't doing.

mechanical_fish 17y ago

Selling TV wall mounts online is not a very great contribution to human progress You speak like a person who has never had a grant proposal turned down. Congratulations! May you continue to enjoy your life in the ivory tower until retirement. However, for better understanding of how other people's lives work you may want to google Maslow's hierarchy of needs, where you will encounter the observation that a person who doesn't have a secure source of food and shelter often has a lot of trouble caring about their contribution to "human progress". A lot of people will hand you money in exchange for TV wall mounts. There are a lot fewer people who will hand you money in exchange for research data on ferrofluids, and there are a lot of people in line for that money.

codexon 17y ago

Unfortunately this is the flaw in western society today. The risk/reward ratio in science is out of wack. Philip Greenspun says this very succinctly in his article about why there aren't women in science. http://philip.greenspun.com/careers/women-in-science http://philip.greenspun.com/careers/women-in-science

Confusion 17y ago

Selling TV wall mounts online is not a very great contribution to human progress It doesn't seem like it is, but it may very well be a great contribution. If you make it easier for many people to find something, what do they do with the aggregate free time they now have on their hands? If you make it cheaper, what do they do with the aggregate 'unused' money? If the time and money enables yet another 'simple' contribution to freeing up time and money, then how far does this snowball roll? Perhaps it will end up freeing us to do humanitarian work, because there is really nothing else that requires our time and money? It's a similar question to: "What most reduces human suffering? If Eliezer keeps doing what he is doing or if he goes to Africa and helps people survive in a refugee camp?" It may turn out you are wrong about everything and helping in a camp would have been better for humanity. Hindsight is 20/20 here and the scale of effects does not allow one to properly estimate them.

FreeRadical 17y ago

I think doing 'stupid' stuff to gain a first successful venture is a good strategy because it may a)make you financially comfortable and therefore can focus on difficult stuff b)give you better access to capital when doing something more difficult

nfnaaron 17y ago

There is nothing wrong with making a living.