8 ms·

Massless particle with promise for next-generation electronics discovered

116 points by esalman 11y ago

deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
- farresito 11y ago
  That's not a 'like' button; it's a 'share' button.
  - galaktor 11y ago
    Thanks for the response. I asked a genuine question, and given that I a) rarely use FB and b) don't put their buttons on websites in my line of work, was curious about FBs guidelines. Will delete the questions since it seems to be catching me lots of bad karma.
darkmighty 11y ago
Can anyone ascertain how much those claims are press release hype?
- dvdkhlng 11y ago
  I only skimmed the article, but claiming discovery of a "new particle" seems extremly bogus. According to wikipedia [1], the cited paper merely demonstrates the finding of a quasi-particle [3] that behaves like a Weyl Fermion. Claiming to have found a new particle in that case is like claiming that magnetic monopoles actually exist based on these findings [2]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spinor#Terminology_in_physics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spinor#Terminology_in_physics [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spin_ice#cite_note-MonopoleReview-3 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spin_ice#cite_note-MonopoleRev... [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quasiparticle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quasiparticle
yk 11y ago
Someone should perhaps point out, that the article talks about quasiparticles. Quasiparticles are a bit similar to the particle aspect of a quantum mechanical wave. So for example deformations of the lattice of an crystal are sound waves, but it is also possible to look at the deformations as a field and then quantize the field. Excitations of this field look suspiciously similar to a particle, as in they are produced by the same mathematical formalism. The particles associated with excitations of the electro-magnetic field are photons, and the particles associated with excitations of this deformation field are called phonons. The difference is, that the electro magnetic field is a fundamental aspect of nature, while the deformation field only describes deformations of a given crystal and therefore photons are fundamental particles, while phonons are quasi particles. Something similar happens in this discovery, there is some aspect of the dynamic in the crystal that can be described as a Weyl spinor. But that does not mean, that a new fundamental particle is discovered, it just means that a new dynamic in a crystal is observed. ( Which is of course cool in its own right, and probably technologically more relevant than a new fundamental particle.)
- fsloth 11y ago
  Thanks, great summary. To translate to non-physicists: It quacks like a particle, it walks like a particle but it's not really a particle. Like counting stones or apples, the both can be understood in terms of similar arithmetic. Same here, only more maths. And, those properties that were observed, may come in handy.
  - acjohnson55 11y ago
    But what is a "real" particle anyway?
    - Conjoiner 11y ago
      The difference between a bullet made of real particles and one made of math is that the real one can kill you.
      - 11y ago
privong 11y ago
There was some other discussion on HN about this discovery four days ago[0], based on the press release from the competing MIT team. Both papers were published in the same issue of Science[1,2] (preprints[3,4]). [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9899369 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9899369 [1] http://www.sciencemag.org/content/early/2015/07/15/science.aaa9273.abstract?sid=31d8c875-11ca-4da8-aeeb-32719f4e4395 http://www.sciencemag.org/content/early/2015/07/15/science.a... [2] http://www.sciencemag.org/content/early/2015/07/15/science.aaa9297.abstract?sid=31d8c875-11ca-4da8-aeeb-32719f4e4395 http://www.sciencemag.org/content/early/2015/07/15/science.a... [3] http://arxiv.org/abs/1502.03438 http://arxiv.org/abs/1502.03438 [4] http://arxiv.org/abs/1503.02630v1 http://arxiv.org/abs/1503.02630v1 (h/t @selimthegrim)
nickpsecurity 11y ago
Neat stuff. Hopefully we get some use out of them. Meanwhile, optical computing field is coming along nicely from the time when I read press releases about it similar to this one. Maybe we'll something great (eg better CPU's) out of it if not this. :)

116 points by esalman 11y ago

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

farresito 11y ago
That's not a 'like' button; it's a 'share' button.
- galaktor 11y ago
  Thanks for the response. I asked a genuine question, and given that I a) rarely use FB and b) don't put their buttons on websites in my line of work, was curious about FBs guidelines. Will delete the questions since it seems to be catching me lots of bad karma.

darkmighty 11y ago

Can anyone ascertain how much those claims are press release hype?

dvdkhlng 11y ago
I only skimmed the article, but claiming discovery of a "new particle" seems extremly bogus. According to wikipedia [1], the cited paper merely demonstrates the finding of a quasi-particle [3] that behaves like a Weyl Fermion. Claiming to have found a new particle in that case is like claiming that magnetic monopoles actually exist based on these findings [2]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spinor#Terminology_in_physics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spinor#Terminology_in_physics [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spin_ice#cite_note-MonopoleReview-3 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spin_ice#cite_note-MonopoleRev... [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quasiparticle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quasiparticle

yk 11y ago

Someone should perhaps point out, that the article talks about quasiparticles. Quasiparticles are a bit similar to the particle aspect of a quantum mechanical wave. So for example deformations of the lattice of an crystal are sound waves, but it is also possible to look at the deformations as a field and then quantize the field. Excitations of this field look suspiciously similar to a particle, as in they are produced by the same mathematical formalism. The particles associated with excitations of the electro-magnetic field are photons, and the particles associated with excitations of this deformation field are called phonons. The difference is, that the electro magnetic field is a fundamental aspect of nature, while the deformation field only describes deformations of a given crystal and therefore photons are fundamental particles, while phonons are quasi particles. Something similar happens in this discovery, there is some aspect of the dynamic in the crystal that can be described as a Weyl spinor. But that does not mean, that a new fundamental particle is discovered, it just means that a new dynamic in a crystal is observed. ( Which is of course cool in its own right, and probably technologically more relevant than a new fundamental particle.)

fsloth 11y ago
Thanks, great summary. To translate to non-physicists: It quacks like a particle, it walks like a particle but it's not really a particle. Like counting stones or apples, the both can be understood in terms of similar arithmetic. Same here, only more maths. And, those properties that were observed, may come in handy.
- acjohnson55 11y ago
  But what is a "real" particle anyway?
  - Conjoiner 11y ago
    The difference between a bullet made of real particles and one made of math is that the real one can kill you.
    - 11y ago

privong 11y ago

There was some other discussion on HN about this discovery four days ago[0], based on the press release from the competing MIT team. Both papers were published in the same issue of Science[1,2] (preprints[3,4]). [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9899369 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9899369 [1] http://www.sciencemag.org/content/early/2015/07/15/science.aaa9273.abstract?sid=31d8c875-11ca-4da8-aeeb-32719f4e4395 http://www.sciencemag.org/content/early/2015/07/15/science.a... [2] http://www.sciencemag.org/content/early/2015/07/15/science.aaa9297.abstract?sid=31d8c875-11ca-4da8-aeeb-32719f4e4395 http://www.sciencemag.org/content/early/2015/07/15/science.a... [3] http://arxiv.org/abs/1502.03438 http://arxiv.org/abs/1502.03438 [4] http://arxiv.org/abs/1503.02630v1 http://arxiv.org/abs/1503.02630v1 (h/t @selimthegrim)

nickpsecurity 11y ago

Neat stuff. Hopefully we get some use out of them. Meanwhile, optical computing field is coming along nicely from the time when I read press releases about it similar to this one. Maybe we'll something great (eg better CPU's) out of it if not this. :)