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Overstock CEO stalks critics on Facebook

23 points by petewarden 17y ago

crimreaper 17y ago
You know there's another side to this story. The same shorts that have attacked Overstock's CEO similarly attacked the CEO of Fairfax Financial: "According to court documents, the hedge fund companies allegedly retained an obscure operative named Spyro Contogouris to drive down Fairfax’s share price, a task he went about with alacrity. In 2005, he’s said to have approached the company’s former CFO, claiming (falsely)that he’d been deputized by the FBI to obtain evidence of financial improprieties. He is thought to be the author of a widely circulated 30-page letter that, among other things, compared Watsa to the convicted fraudster Martin Frankel. (It was even sent to the priest of Watsa’s church, St. Paul’s Anglican on Bloor.) In 2006, several false rumours began circulating: one claimed that the RCMP were pursuing Watsa; another said that they were about to raid Fairfax’s office; yet another claimed he’d placed his assets in his wife’s name and fled the country. By then, the company’s stock had tumbled from highs in the $400 range to less than $100 a share." full article: http://www.grahamanddoddsville.net/wordpress/Files/Gurus/Prem%20Watsa/Prem%20Watsa%20-%20The%202%20Billion%20Dollar%20Man%20-%20Toronto%20Live%20-%2004-2009.pdf http://www.grahamanddoddsville.net/wordpress/Files/Gurus/Pre...
- DenisM 17y ago
  Who are "shorts"?
  - quizbiz 17y ago
    Shorts are people that bet that a stock will fall. The process involves borrowing a share, selling them at their current high price, then buying them after they fall and giving the share back to who you borrowed it from.
- wooster 17y ago
  Forgive me if I'm skeptical of someone whose account was created 17 minutes ago and has only made 1 comment.
  - crimreaper 17y ago
    Right, I created the account because it's not exactly popular to defend someone like Patrick Byrne (which proves my point since I was down-voted, even though I provided evidence of the kind of tactics that are used by certain short sellers... go figure) I'm just saying that short sellers use tactics that are just as bad as what Byrne used here (I don't condone making a fake facebook profile, pretexting, etc). But the fact is that in the Fairfax case, they engaged in a pretty complicated campaign aimed at driving down the stock. One of the method was to feed stories to journalists who specialize in "financial fraud". Overstock already received $5M of settlement from Rocker Partners: "Overstock.com (OSTK) this afternoon said that Rocker Partners, an investment firm now known as Cooper River Partners, will pay the company $5 million to settle long-standing litigation alleging that Rocker and others engaged in “libel, intentional interference with prospective economic advantage and violations of California’s unfair business practices act."
    - diN0bot 17y ago
      > "I created the account because it's not exactly popular to..." by becoming anonymous you show that this isn't important. if something is important to you then all the more reason to stand behind it as yourself. your real-life karma is taking hits when you hide behind anonymity. man up.
- nudist 17y ago
  Are you suggesting that this is a ruse to lower the price of Overstock's shares? On a Saturday? By using an obscure blog?
  - DenisM 17y ago
    You are (and I were) talking to a sock puppet. It's all well explained in the linked article and a couple more linked form there. Fascinating stuff, really.
    - crimreaper 17y ago
      Did you disprove anything of what I've posted? Here's an article that also outlines similar tactics: http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN2342166220091123 http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN2342166220091123
      - scott_s 17y ago
        Nothing you have said or linked to provides evidence that this article is what you describe.
Imprecate 17y ago
Can someone explain exactly what's going on here between these guys? It all seems like a bunch of schizophrenic rambling. I have no opinion on Overstock as an investment or business, but their market cap is around $300mm; I don't see how hedge funds could make enough shorting it for it to be worth committing fraud.
- petewarden 17y ago
  Here's a couple of links giving some background: http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2009/12/10/why-cant-i-hide-my-list-of-facebook-friends/ http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2009/12/10/why-cant-i-... http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2009/12/12/larry-bergman-overstocks-sock-puppet/ http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2009/12/12/larry-bergm... I can't give a good explanation of the financial aspects, but they've been trying to apply pressure to a bunch of journalists by publishing private information about them.
- gamble 17y ago
  Patrick Byrne, the CEO of Overstock, has been on a crusade against naked short sellers, blaming a group of hedge funds for driving down his company's stock. He's been all but called a nutjob in the financial press, which has led him to criticize certain journalists as being in bed with the short-sellers. The most recent episode concerned Deep Capture, a blog that supports Byrne. They were able to obtain the Facebook friends lists for the hedge fund managers and journalists targeted by Byrne and were able to show a large number of cross-links between the journalists and fund managers, and in some cases their families. Deep Capture was careful to avoid making specific charges, but the basic argument is that it establishes the possibility of collusion between the fund managers and an unprofessionally close personal relationship with the journalists.
toodlestech 17y ago
You're going to believe a blog that considers "hacking into someones facebook account" to be friending them, getting accepted, and then writing down their friends. I couldn't stop laughing while reading this fallacious article. incoming downvotes
steveplace 17y ago
If the market tanks again, we can rise against the shortsellers for destroying the economy. As for now, this is paranoia and is ignorant of how markets operate. Further info: http://bit.ly/8M0Sj7 http://bit.ly/8M0Sj7 -- From The Big Picture (Ritholtz)

23 points by petewarden 17y ago

You know there's another side to this story. The same shorts that have attacked Overstock's CEO similarly attacked the CEO of Fairfax Financial: "According to court documents, the hedge fund companies allegedly retained an obscure operative named Spyro Contogouris to drive down Fairfax’s share price, a task he went about with alacrity. In 2005, he’s said to have approached the company’s former CFO, claiming (falsely)that he’d been deputized by the FBI to obtain evidence of financial improprieties. He is thought to be the author of a widely circulated 30-page letter that, among other things, compared Watsa to the convicted fraudster Martin Frankel. (It was even sent to the priest of Watsa’s church, St. Paul’s Anglican on Bloor.) In 2006, several false rumours began circulating: one claimed that the RCMP were pursuing Watsa; another said that they were about to raid Fairfax’s office; yet another claimed he’d placed his assets in his wife’s name and fled the country. By then, the company’s stock had tumbled from highs in the $400 range to less than $100 a share." full article: http://www.grahamanddoddsville.net/wordpress/Files/Gurus/Prem%20Watsa/Prem%20Watsa%20-%20The%202%20Billion%20Dollar%20Man%20-%20Toronto%20Live%20-%2004-2009.pdf http://www.grahamanddoddsville.net/wordpress/Files/Gurus/Pre...

DenisM 17y ago
Who are "shorts"?
- quizbiz 17y ago
  Shorts are people that bet that a stock will fall. The process involves borrowing a share, selling them at their current high price, then buying them after they fall and giving the share back to who you borrowed it from.
wooster 17y ago
Forgive me if I'm skeptical of someone whose account was created 17 minutes ago and has only made 1 comment.
- crimreaper 17y ago
  Right, I created the account because it's not exactly popular to defend someone like Patrick Byrne (which proves my point since I was down-voted, even though I provided evidence of the kind of tactics that are used by certain short sellers... go figure) I'm just saying that short sellers use tactics that are just as bad as what Byrne used here (I don't condone making a fake facebook profile, pretexting, etc). But the fact is that in the Fairfax case, they engaged in a pretty complicated campaign aimed at driving down the stock. One of the method was to feed stories to journalists who specialize in "financial fraud". Overstock already received $5M of settlement from Rocker Partners: "Overstock.com (OSTK) this afternoon said that Rocker Partners, an investment firm now known as Cooper River Partners, will pay the company $5 million to settle long-standing litigation alleging that Rocker and others engaged in “libel, intentional interference with prospective economic advantage and violations of California’s unfair business practices act."
  - diN0bot 17y ago
    > "I created the account because it's not exactly popular to..." by becoming anonymous you show that this isn't important. if something is important to you then all the more reason to stand behind it as yourself. your real-life karma is taking hits when you hide behind anonymity. man up.
nudist 17y ago
Are you suggesting that this is a ruse to lower the price of Overstock's shares? On a Saturday? By using an obscure blog?
- DenisM 17y ago
  You are (and I were) talking to a sock puppet. It's all well explained in the linked article and a couple more linked form there. Fascinating stuff, really.
  - crimreaper 17y ago
    Did you disprove anything of what I've posted? Here's an article that also outlines similar tactics: http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN2342166220091123 http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN2342166220091123
    - scott_s 17y ago
      Nothing you have said or linked to provides evidence that this article is what you describe.

Imprecate 17y ago

Can someone explain exactly what's going on here between these guys? It all seems like a bunch of schizophrenic rambling. I have no opinion on Overstock as an investment or business, but their market cap is around $300mm; I don't see how hedge funds could make enough shorting it for it to be worth committing fraud.

petewarden 17y ago
Here's a couple of links giving some background: http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2009/12/10/why-cant-i-hide-my-list-of-facebook-friends/ http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2009/12/10/why-cant-i-... http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2009/12/12/larry-bergman-overstocks-sock-puppet/ http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2009/12/12/larry-bergm... I can't give a good explanation of the financial aspects, but they've been trying to apply pressure to a bunch of journalists by publishing private information about them.
gamble 17y ago
Patrick Byrne, the CEO of Overstock, has been on a crusade against naked short sellers, blaming a group of hedge funds for driving down his company's stock. He's been all but called a nutjob in the financial press, which has led him to criticize certain journalists as being in bed with the short-sellers. The most recent episode concerned Deep Capture, a blog that supports Byrne. They were able to obtain the Facebook friends lists for the hedge fund managers and journalists targeted by Byrne and were able to show a large number of cross-links between the journalists and fund managers, and in some cases their families. Deep Capture was careful to avoid making specific charges, but the basic argument is that it establishes the possibility of collusion between the fund managers and an unprofessionally close personal relationship with the journalists.

toodlestech 17y ago

You're going to believe a blog that considers "hacking into someones facebook account" to be friending them, getting accepted, and then writing down their friends. I couldn't stop laughing while reading this fallacious article. incoming downvotes

steveplace 17y ago

If the market tanks again, we can rise against the shortsellers for destroying the economy. As for now, this is paranoia and is ignorant of how markets operate. Further info: http://bit.ly/8M0Sj7 http://bit.ly/8M0Sj7 -- From The Big Picture (Ritholtz)