4 ms·

Of the thousand killed by cop, how many were holding a gun to the head of someone, or came out shooting before that happened?

rosser 11y ago
I'll bet you the cash I have on my person that there were more unarmed people in that thousand than had a gun to someone's head.
- justwannasing 11y ago
  I'll bet you cash on my person that there were more people doing bad things to innocent people during these events.
  - rosser 11y ago
    ...which means they should get shot by a cop? I don't think that's how "criminal justice" is supposed to work.
    - justwannasing 11y ago
      Now you're saying that is the norm. You're basing your statements on the internet scream, HN and Reddit and not reality. You're basing your statements on one-off happenings as it happens everywhere. These are things no engineer would hear of but you see statements like yours on HN all the time.
      - rosser 11y ago
        No, I'm not. We're specifically talking about the ~1000 people per year shot by police. You can't suddenly change the context of the discussion and tell me that my (apparently formerly) in-context comments are trying to paint some exaggerated, false picture of the entirety of citizen-police interactions. I'm very well aware that there are countless millions of citizen-police interactions every year that don't result in people getting shot. So? We weren't talking about them. Let me put it this way: is it your position that in every single one of those thousand-odd cases, the person who was shot deserved it? If not, how many of them did?
colechristensen 11y ago
Life isn't like the movies. Police should be masters at de-escalation. Instead, because they are not trained and motivated, they often create the situations which result in shootings. Not universally, but often. The people who shoot at the police _do_ have a reasonable belief that they'll be killed if they don't try to defend themselves. That is people who have committed crimes end up being more violent because they fear police brutality. Police in turn are quicker to turn to force in fear of their own safety. This vicious should be and needs to be terminated by police learning how best to minimize the violent tendencies of petty criminals and the mentally ill. Don't get me wrong, the weapons they use are valuable and important tools, but they are so often used because the authority wants to use them. I've known more than one person who before signing up, said openly that they were joining the armed services because they "wanted to shoot people". It's easy to find police on public media who clearly have the attitude that the people they work with on a daily basis are the enemy. It's easy to look at the cops as the bad guys. "Fuck the police!" but that's falling for the same line of reasoning that the bad cops do. You have to recognize that it's a systematic problem. The real world is complex – Americans really have to rid themselves of the Christian "good vs. evil" narrative we try to apply to every situation. And it turns out that hostage situations in police shootings are indeed pretty damned rare.
- justwannasing 11y ago
  What you are trying to do is blame the actions of the bad guys on the police and making the bad guys blameless and without fault. You are saying that, if it weren't for the police, there would be no killings and shootings.

rosser 11y ago

I'll bet you the cash I have on my person that there were more unarmed people in that thousand than had a gun to someone's head.

justwannasing 11y ago
I'll bet you cash on my person that there were more people doing bad things to innocent people during these events.
- rosser 11y ago
  ...which means they should get shot by a cop? I don't think that's how "criminal justice" is supposed to work.
  - justwannasing 11y ago
    Now you're saying that is the norm. You're basing your statements on the internet scream, HN and Reddit and not reality. You're basing your statements on one-off happenings as it happens everywhere. These are things no engineer would hear of but you see statements like yours on HN all the time.
    - rosser 11y ago
      No, I'm not. We're specifically talking about the ~1000 people per year shot by police. You can't suddenly change the context of the discussion and tell me that my (apparently formerly) in-context comments are trying to paint some exaggerated, false picture of the entirety of citizen-police interactions. I'm very well aware that there are countless millions of citizen-police interactions every year that don't result in people getting shot. So? We weren't talking about them. Let me put it this way: is it your position that in every single one of those thousand-odd cases, the person who was shot deserved it? If not, how many of them did?

colechristensen 11y ago

Life isn't like the movies. Police should be masters at de-escalation. Instead, because they are not trained and motivated, they often create the situations which result in shootings. Not universally, but often. The people who shoot at the police _do_ have a reasonable belief that they'll be killed if they don't try to defend themselves. That is people who have committed crimes end up being more violent because they fear police brutality. Police in turn are quicker to turn to force in fear of their own safety. This vicious should be and needs to be terminated by police learning how best to minimize the violent tendencies of petty criminals and the mentally ill. Don't get me wrong, the weapons they use are valuable and important tools, but they are so often used because the authority wants to use them. I've known more than one person who before signing up, said openly that they were joining the armed services because they "wanted to shoot people". It's easy to find police on public media who clearly have the attitude that the people they work with on a daily basis are the enemy. It's easy to look at the cops as the bad guys. "Fuck the police!" but that's falling for the same line of reasoning that the bad cops do. You have to recognize that it's a systematic problem. The real world is complex – Americans really have to rid themselves of the Christian "good vs. evil" narrative we try to apply to every situation. And it turns out that hostage situations in police shootings are indeed pretty damned rare.

justwannasing 11y ago
What you are trying to do is blame the actions of the bad guys on the police and making the bad guys blameless and without fault. You are saying that, if it weren't for the police, there would be no killings and shootings.