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Is this a joke? $600+ for a desk LED lamp? Even if current LEDs lose brightness, you could just replace the bulb every month for the next 10 years before this l

Is this a joke? $600+ for a desk LED lamp? Even if current LEDs lose brightness, you could just replace the bulb every month for the next 10 years before this lamp even came close to an ROI. But I guess Dyson isn't going after the "value" market, just the cool factor.

knodi123 11y ago
> Is this a joke? I see you're new to Dyson's business model. Keep in mind, these are the guys who make a $400 fan in a niche full of $10 competitors.
- Someone1234 11y ago
  And ignoring how it looks for a second, the Dyson Air Multiplier is kind of mediocre anyway (and VERY mediocre for the price point). The rest of the electric fan market has shifted over the last ten-ish years to noise-efficiency. Meaning the most air movement for the least amount of noise. So we've seen new blade shapes, smarter motor designs, enclosures that attempt to dampen the noise, and so on. And Dyson's Air Multiplier could, in theory, have done well in that competition but they care more about form than function, so they stuck this tiny little motor with a higher RPM in the thing which has made it extremely loud for the amount of air that it can move. In terms of noise-efficiency, it sounds as loud as fans from the 1990s and before.
  - zimpenfish 11y ago
    Apropos of nothing, Muji's USB desktop fan has contra-rotating blades and is amazingly quiet for the amount of air it can shift.
  - freehunter 11y ago
    Yeah, it's getting hard to find a fan that I can run at night to cover the noise of the city. Every time I buy a fan, it's quieter and quieter, but I like loud fans to help me sleep.
    - noir_lord 11y ago
      Punch holes in the blades with a drill. That and (perhaps) making the pattern asymmetric should restore the noise.
    - Someone1234 11y ago
      No sarcasm: Look into Nursery Sleep Soothers. While they sell white noise machines targeted at adults, they're all terrible because it is a niche market. But in the nursery sleep soothers category you can find a bunch of high quality white noise machines for a good price. For example the Marpac Dohm has an actual spinning fan inside designed to generate white noise. But you can find digital noise simulators who can do: industrial sounds, water, fan noise, nature, and so on.
      - dublinben 11y ago
        Is the Marpac Dohm actually targeted at nurseries? I've seen it quite frequently in medical waiting rooms. It helps provide privacy for those having sensitive conversations behind flimsy doors.
        Someone1234 11y ago
        On Amazon at least they sell it under Baby Sleep Soothers and Sound Therapy Products.
      - knodi123 11y ago
        I bought one for our baby's room, but when I decided I wanted one for myself, I hit on a much cheaper solution; I just turn my clock radio to an empty station and crank the volume.
  - Demiurge 11y ago
    Is there a good website that rates fans by power/noise/price? I don't actually care about the price much, I really want a quieter fan that won't make me turn up the music too loud to hear the details and wake anyone up.
- kmfrk 11y ago
  My mom once got a Dyson vacuum cleaner. I can only assume Dyson pivoted from making a jet engine.
  - stuaxo 11y ago
    It's the only one where vacuuming becomes kind of fun because it actually works
  - knodi123 11y ago
    I bought a dyson. To test it, I vacuumed with my old unit, and then immediately vacuumed with my dyson. surprise, I managed to completely fill the canister. they're noisy and expensive, but they work really well.
- higherpurpose 11y ago
  Sounds just like Beats. Maybe Apple should buy them out and make gold lights for $6,000.
- logfromblammo 11y ago
  This is how engineers make money in an environment where most people do not understand how engineering works. Dyson is just something of a rarity in that he's selling consumer devices to the public, rather than defense hardware to governments. Everyone in on the "design" scam relies very heavily on the assumption that the more expensive goods work better than cheaper ones. As previously mentioned, there is no rational case to be made for buying one of these. If my laptop computer lasted up to 37 years, I would likely still replace it after no more than 5, with another that cost half as much both in terms of initial investment and operating cost, while still offering greater capabilities. I'd just take that $600 I might have spent on a lamp, buy Cree stock instead.
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
devy 11y ago
I am the OP. Yes, that's the same reaction I had when I first noticed it. The funny thing is, they aren't even backing their "premium LED lighting" product the same way they did for vacs, which has 5-year limited warrant. LED lighting gets only Free 2 year limited warranty, even though they claimed "37 years" of lift span based on some calculation. One might wonder, will they still be around in business after 37 years?
- wlesieutre 11y ago
  The LEDs may well last that long. The electronics providing the correct voltage/current to the LEDs, not so much. On the LEDs, the industry accepted method for measuring lumen maintenance of LEDs sets an "upper reporting bound" on LED life estimates at 6x the length of test data, since we aren't sure whether the prediction model will hold true over the longer term. Either you report L70 as the time when output drops below 70% of original, or you report it like "L70 > 60,000 hours" (if you had 10,000 hours of testing and it was predicted to stay above 70% at 60,000 hours). Dyson is claiming 154000 hours, implying that they have over 25000 hours of test data. This is very light on supporting data, so I'm naturally skeptical of it. It's not uncommon to see people ignoring the 6x upper reporting bound because they want to publish a big number that may or may not actually mean anything. Dyson also don't mention whether they're talking about L70, L90, or some other criteria. L70 is typical, so I assume it's that. I'd expect to see a INTMT test and their LM-79 lumen maintenance calculation, based on the temperature data and calculated in EnergyStar's freely available LM-79 spreadsheet. For high-end lighting products, this information gets published.
jowiar 11y ago
Looking at what Flos and Artemide lamps go for, there's definitely a market at that price point. Whether it's worth it to you or me, well, probably not. But hey, you can cover a lifetime or three of petrol for the cost of a Tesla, and folks are forking over the cash left and right.
arrrg 11y ago
It looks kick-ass. That’s plenty. All the rest doesn’t matter. If you like the way this looks you gotta pay the price. (And what exactly is wrong with looking kick-ass?) I’m sure you will be able to buy some cheap imitation soon enough. If you are lucky this might even be picked up by some talented designer at Ikea and you might get a really honest and well-made imitation, not something that doesn’t even get the point of this design. I also don’t think you ever bought an upscale lamp like this. $600 for a desk lamp is a completely middle of the road price for the category this lamp is competing in. It’s not even extraordinary. The competitors in this market segment have the same or higher prices. For example, Elane from Serien costs roughly the same or even more and doesn’t even have any fancy heat pipes: http://serien.com/en/produkte/elane/table/ http://serien.com/en/produkte/elane/table/ (I mean, look around the products of this brand and you will also find these technological innovations and unique materials and all that jazz that doesn’t amount to much in the end. It’s a justification game for the prices – but in the end it’s all about the looks, really. The drama of home furniture is that you can often get something decent but not very special for an ok price, but then … then you see this really cool looking thing right next to it that would add that little bit extra … but costs an order of magnitude more. I’m not sure why prices are so weird when it comes to that. I mean, someone like Ikea is sort of attacking that market and those prices in some weird way, but those upscale places still exist. And you definitely lose the uniqueness with Ikea – because their well-designed stuff will soon be everywhere.)
kristiandupont 11y ago
Plenty of designer stuff is vastly overpriced. That's fine, we all know that there is more than utility to making a purchase decision. But I do agree that the marketing here seems slightly off. The LED cooling is the solution to a problem that nobody has or cares about if I ever saw one. And it doesn't even make for interesting small talk like some expensive gadgets. In terms of demographics, I think this lamp appeals more to the Wallpaper reading type than the Wired reading type and though there is a significant overlap, I think they should focus a bit less on the lifetime of the LED's and all that technical stuff.
myth_buster 11y ago
Well, the tall one will go well with an Eames chair [0]. Point being there is a niche market for practical lifestyle product which may go against conventional wisdom. [0] http://www.hermanmiller.com/products/seating/lounge-seating/eames-lounge-chair-and-ottoman.html http://www.hermanmiller.com/products/seating/lounge-seating/...
- zachrose 11y ago
  Or, if you want to match the harsh geometry of the lamp, a Rietvald Zig-Zag chair: https://www.google.com/search?q=rietveld+zigzag+chair https://www.google.com/search?q=rietveld+zigzag+chair

knodi123 11y ago

> Is this a joke? I see you're new to Dyson's business model. Keep in mind, these are the guys who make a $400 fan in a niche full of $10 competitors.

Someone1234 11y ago
And ignoring how it looks for a second, the Dyson Air Multiplier is kind of mediocre anyway (and VERY mediocre for the price point). The rest of the electric fan market has shifted over the last ten-ish years to noise-efficiency. Meaning the most air movement for the least amount of noise. So we've seen new blade shapes, smarter motor designs, enclosures that attempt to dampen the noise, and so on. And Dyson's Air Multiplier could, in theory, have done well in that competition but they care more about form than function, so they stuck this tiny little motor with a higher RPM in the thing which has made it extremely loud for the amount of air that it can move. In terms of noise-efficiency, it sounds as loud as fans from the 1990s and before.
- zimpenfish 11y ago
  Apropos of nothing, Muji's USB desktop fan has contra-rotating blades and is amazingly quiet for the amount of air it can shift.
- freehunter 11y ago
  Yeah, it's getting hard to find a fan that I can run at night to cover the noise of the city. Every time I buy a fan, it's quieter and quieter, but I like loud fans to help me sleep.
  - noir_lord 11y ago
    Punch holes in the blades with a drill. That and (perhaps) making the pattern asymmetric should restore the noise.
  - Someone1234 11y ago
    No sarcasm: Look into Nursery Sleep Soothers. While they sell white noise machines targeted at adults, they're all terrible because it is a niche market. But in the nursery sleep soothers category you can find a bunch of high quality white noise machines for a good price. For example the Marpac Dohm has an actual spinning fan inside designed to generate white noise. But you can find digital noise simulators who can do: industrial sounds, water, fan noise, nature, and so on.
    - dublinben 11y ago
      Is the Marpac Dohm actually targeted at nurseries? I've seen it quite frequently in medical waiting rooms. It helps provide privacy for those having sensitive conversations behind flimsy doors.
      - Someone1234 11y ago
        On Amazon at least they sell it under Baby Sleep Soothers and Sound Therapy Products.
    - knodi123 11y ago
      I bought one for our baby's room, but when I decided I wanted one for myself, I hit on a much cheaper solution; I just turn my clock radio to an empty station and crank the volume.
- Demiurge 11y ago
  Is there a good website that rates fans by power/noise/price? I don't actually care about the price much, I really want a quieter fan that won't make me turn up the music too loud to hear the details and wake anyone up.
kmfrk 11y ago
My mom once got a Dyson vacuum cleaner. I can only assume Dyson pivoted from making a jet engine.
- stuaxo 11y ago
  It's the only one where vacuuming becomes kind of fun because it actually works
- knodi123 11y ago
  I bought a dyson. To test it, I vacuumed with my old unit, and then immediately vacuumed with my dyson. surprise, I managed to completely fill the canister. they're noisy and expensive, but they work really well.
higherpurpose 11y ago
Sounds just like Beats. Maybe Apple should buy them out and make gold lights for $6,000.
logfromblammo 11y ago
This is how engineers make money in an environment where most people do not understand how engineering works. Dyson is just something of a rarity in that he's selling consumer devices to the public, rather than defense hardware to governments. Everyone in on the "design" scam relies very heavily on the assumption that the more expensive goods work better than cheaper ones. As previously mentioned, there is no rational case to be made for buying one of these. If my laptop computer lasted up to 37 years, I would likely still replace it after no more than 5, with another that cost half as much both in terms of initial investment and operating cost, while still offering greater capabilities. I'd just take that $600 I might have spent on a lamp, buy Cree stock instead.

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

devy 11y ago

I am the OP. Yes, that's the same reaction I had when I first noticed it. The funny thing is, they aren't even backing their "premium LED lighting" product the same way they did for vacs, which has 5-year limited warrant. LED lighting gets only Free 2 year limited warranty, even though they claimed "37 years" of lift span based on some calculation. One might wonder, will they still be around in business after 37 years?

wlesieutre 11y ago
The LEDs may well last that long. The electronics providing the correct voltage/current to the LEDs, not so much. On the LEDs, the industry accepted method for measuring lumen maintenance of LEDs sets an "upper reporting bound" on LED life estimates at 6x the length of test data, since we aren't sure whether the prediction model will hold true over the longer term. Either you report L70 as the time when output drops below 70% of original, or you report it like "L70 > 60,000 hours" (if you had 10,000 hours of testing and it was predicted to stay above 70% at 60,000 hours). Dyson is claiming 154000 hours, implying that they have over 25000 hours of test data. This is very light on supporting data, so I'm naturally skeptical of it. It's not uncommon to see people ignoring the 6x upper reporting bound because they want to publish a big number that may or may not actually mean anything. Dyson also don't mention whether they're talking about L70, L90, or some other criteria. L70 is typical, so I assume it's that. I'd expect to see a INTMT test and their LM-79 lumen maintenance calculation, based on the temperature data and calculated in EnergyStar's freely available LM-79 spreadsheet. For high-end lighting products, this information gets published.

jowiar 11y ago

Looking at what Flos and Artemide lamps go for, there's definitely a market at that price point. Whether it's worth it to you or me, well, probably not. But hey, you can cover a lifetime or three of petrol for the cost of a Tesla, and folks are forking over the cash left and right.

arrrg 11y ago

It looks kick-ass. That’s plenty. All the rest doesn’t matter. If you like the way this looks you gotta pay the price. (And what exactly is wrong with looking kick-ass?) I’m sure you will be able to buy some cheap imitation soon enough. If you are lucky this might even be picked up by some talented designer at Ikea and you might get a really honest and well-made imitation, not something that doesn’t even get the point of this design. I also don’t think you ever bought an upscale lamp like this. $600 for a desk lamp is a completely middle of the road price for the category this lamp is competing in. It’s not even extraordinary. The competitors in this market segment have the same or higher prices. For example, Elane from Serien costs roughly the same or even more and doesn’t even have any fancy heat pipes: http://serien.com/en/produkte/elane/table/ http://serien.com/en/produkte/elane/table/ (I mean, look around the products of this brand and you will also find these technological innovations and unique materials and all that jazz that doesn’t amount to much in the end. It’s a justification game for the prices – but in the end it’s all about the looks, really. The drama of home furniture is that you can often get something decent but not very special for an ok price, but then … then you see this really cool looking thing right next to it that would add that little bit extra … but costs an order of magnitude more. I’m not sure why prices are so weird when it comes to that. I mean, someone like Ikea is sort of attacking that market and those prices in some weird way, but those upscale places still exist. And you definitely lose the uniqueness with Ikea – because their well-designed stuff will soon be everywhere.)

kristiandupont 11y ago

Plenty of designer stuff is vastly overpriced. That's fine, we all know that there is more than utility to making a purchase decision. But I do agree that the marketing here seems slightly off. The LED cooling is the solution to a problem that nobody has or cares about if I ever saw one. And it doesn't even make for interesting small talk like some expensive gadgets. In terms of demographics, I think this lamp appeals more to the Wallpaper reading type than the Wired reading type and though there is a significant overlap, I think they should focus a bit less on the lifetime of the LED's and all that technical stuff.

myth_buster 11y ago

Well, the tall one will go well with an Eames chair [0]. Point being there is a niche market for practical lifestyle product which may go against conventional wisdom. [0] http://www.hermanmiller.com/products/seating/lounge-seating/eames-lounge-chair-and-ottoman.html http://www.hermanmiller.com/products/seating/lounge-seating/...

zachrose 11y ago
Or, if you want to match the harsh geometry of the lamp, a Rietvald Zig-Zag chair: https://www.google.com/search?q=rietveld+zigzag+chair https://www.google.com/search?q=rietveld+zigzag+chair