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I read this interesting story once before and still don't understand why the author insists on typecasting Mel as a "Real Programmer". It sounds to me like he

by pnut 11y ago

I read this interesting story once before and still don't understand why the author insists on typecasting Mel as a "Real Programmer". It sounds to me like he should have been writing optimizing assemblers instead of wasting his talents doing one-off blackjack programs. Additionally, Real Programmers write comprehensible code.

seibelj 11y ago
That is the point - the term 'Real Programmer' is meaningless and is merely used to disparage languages / tools / platforms and boost egos. You can look at Mel, a 'Real Programmer', and realize that you can't make value judgements of what true programming is. Programming is using logic to solve problems, regardless of the tools and language.
kenbellows 11y ago
In that context, "Real Programmer" means something like "someone who understands every minute detail about every part of the systems he's programming to the point that they can keep track of every variable, every system state, and every operation to make it do whatever they want". It's not about programming style or finesse. It's about raw mastery of the system to deeper levels than those not called "real programmers" could fathom.
yellowapple 11y ago
From the Jargon File: http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/R/Real-Programmer.html http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/R/Real-Programmer.html "Real Programmer" is derived from the name of Real Programmers Don't Use Pascal [0], which describes "Real Programmers" as being those who use FORTRAN or assembly or something similarly painful to write software in versus someone who used high-level languages. Nowadays it's generally understood to mean anyone who writes code either directly on "bare metal" or very close to it despite the use of higher-level tools; nowadays, the term's used more-or-less ironically (since modern compilers have gotten much better about proper optimizations), but Mel Kaye - the "Mel" of "The Story of Mel" - was (is?) the archetypal definition of a true "Real Programmer". The term "Real Programmer" predates "The Story of Mel" by about a year; "The Story of Mel" was written as a direct response to "Real Programmers Don't Use Pascal" (namely, its claim that "Real Programmers write in FORTRAN"). Mel makes FORTRAN programmers look like quiche-eating Pascal programmers in comparison. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_Programmers_Don%27t_Use_Pascal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_Programmers_Don%27t_Use_P...

by pnut 11y ago

seibelj 11y ago

That is the point - the term 'Real Programmer' is meaningless and is merely used to disparage languages / tools / platforms and boost egos. You can look at Mel, a 'Real Programmer', and realize that you can't make value judgements of what true programming is. Programming is using logic to solve problems, regardless of the tools and language.

kenbellows 11y ago

In that context, "Real Programmer" means something like "someone who understands every minute detail about every part of the systems he's programming to the point that they can keep track of every variable, every system state, and every operation to make it do whatever they want". It's not about programming style or finesse. It's about raw mastery of the system to deeper levels than those not called "real programmers" could fathom.

yellowapple 11y ago

From the Jargon File: http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/R/Real-Programmer.html http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/R/Real-Programmer.html "Real Programmer" is derived from the name of Real Programmers Don't Use Pascal [0], which describes "Real Programmers" as being those who use FORTRAN or assembly or something similarly painful to write software in versus someone who used high-level languages. Nowadays it's generally understood to mean anyone who writes code either directly on "bare metal" or very close to it despite the use of higher-level tools; nowadays, the term's used more-or-less ironically (since modern compilers have gotten much better about proper optimizations), but Mel Kaye - the "Mel" of "The Story of Mel" - was (is?) the archetypal definition of a true "Real Programmer". The term "Real Programmer" predates "The Story of Mel" by about a year; "The Story of Mel" was written as a direct response to "Real Programmers Don't Use Pascal" (namely, its claim that "Real Programmers write in FORTRAN"). Mel makes FORTRAN programmers look like quiche-eating Pascal programmers in comparison. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_Programmers_Don%27t_Use_Pascal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_Programmers_Don%27t_Use_P...