5 ms·

Your example is somewhat fallacious in that sexual assault is, in fact, criminal, and running a platform that encourages and rewards it is potentially an access

by cheald 11y ago

Your example is somewhat fallacious in that sexual assault is, in fact, criminal, and running a platform that encourages and rewards it is potentially an accessory to that crime. Hacking it may in fact be more ethically (though not necessarily legally) justifiable if its demise in fact contributes to the reduction of violence against the site's users' victims. Cheating, morally reprehensible as it may be, is not in the same ballpark. Regarding the "delete your information" fee, I am quite confidant that the lawyers made sure that the service sold was the deletion of your application profile, not the wiping of all traces that you ever did business with the company. To call it fraud is probably premature.

StavrosK 11y ago
Adultery is also criminal in many parts of the world, including the US.
- richmarr 11y ago
  While that's true, I think it's a little misrepresentative. Obviously it differs by state, but as a whole the US take on adultery is (broadly) religious, so aligns it more closely with other strongly religious countries like Pakistan than with Europe, Japan, etc. "The United States is one of few industrialized countries to have laws criminalizing adultery" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adultery#United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adultery#United_States
- kelnos 11y ago
  Only sorta true: "The United States is one of few industrialized countries to have laws criminalizing adultery... Adultery remains a criminal offense in 21 states, although prosecutions are rare." [0] From skimming the rest of the article, it seems adultery is otherwise only criminal in some parts of Asia and Africa. So while I suppose your statement is strictly true, it's not usefully true as a rebuttal of the parent's argument. (I was actually shocked to find that the law is on the books of 21 US states. I know in the US we have some ridiculously stupid laws, but... c'mon. Adultery is reprehensible to me, but... criminal?) [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adultery#United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adultery#United_States
  - StavrosK 11y ago
    My point is more that judging moral issues by whether there's a law against them is a facile argument, and that the GP needs a better one. I think we can all agree that cheating is morally reprehensible, and thus its facilitators are not morally justified.
    - richmarr 11y ago
      @Asbostos is victim-blaming and defending viglilantism. Anyone who supports the rule of law should want to see the perpetrator of this on trial. Maybe the company who was breached should also be in court, but that's a different matter entirely.
      - StavrosK 11y ago
        I'm not sure Asbostos doesn't want to see the perpetrator of this on trial, they're just saying that the victim was immoral (and I'm not terribly sorry for them either). I am also not convinced that vigilantism is always wrong. I can't blame the villagers who, after seeing a restaurant owner entice a dog with food only to kill it with a chair, never stepped foot in the restaurant again, effectively bankrupting it.
        richmarr 11y ago
        I'm not sure Asbostos doesn't want to... Sure, I'll concede an assumption there. I am also not convinced that vigilantism is always wrong 'Wrong' is subjective so that statement is a truism. For a given act of vigilantism there will be a proportion who condone it and a proportion who don't. Who decides? That's what the law is for. It's so we can't all just wander about dispensing 'justice' without accountability. What happens if someone commits suicide because of this hack? Can their kids sue the people responsible? No, they're denied due process. I'm not convinced that law enforcement conducted by the proper authorities is always right, but at least we have some semblence of oversight and accountability and the opportunity to learn from mistakes and improve things. Don't you think it's inconsistent that the hackers themselves are hugely critical of the company they breached for not properly deleting customer data on request; and yet those same people have already started publishing that exact same customer data? They're not even accountable to their own definition of right and wrong. I can't blame the villagers who, after seeing a restaurant owner entice a dog with food only to kill it with a chair, never stepped foot in the restaurant again, effectively bankrupting it. I don't think that fits the definition of vigilantism. Vigilantism is law enforcement undertaken by those without society's authority to do so. What you described above is simple consumer choice, a boycott at worst.
DanBC 11y ago
Adultery is a felony crime in some parts of the US. http://www.theweek.co.uk/62723/adultery-laws-where-is-cheating-still-illegal http://www.theweek.co.uk/62723/adultery-laws-where-is-cheati... > In most states, including New York, cheating on your spouse is considered only a misdemeanour. However, in others like Idaho, Massachusetts, Michigan, Oklahoma and Wisconsin, it is a felony crime. Prosecutions are rare, but they do occur and punishments can range from a $10 fine in Maryland to life imprisonment in Michigan, according to Mother Jones. > http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2011/11/is-adultery-illegal-map http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2011/11/is-adultery-illegal-...

by cheald 11y ago

StavrosK 11y ago

Adultery is also criminal in many parts of the world, including the US.

richmarr 11y ago
While that's true, I think it's a little misrepresentative. Obviously it differs by state, but as a whole the US take on adultery is (broadly) religious, so aligns it more closely with other strongly religious countries like Pakistan than with Europe, Japan, etc. "The United States is one of few industrialized countries to have laws criminalizing adultery" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adultery#United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adultery#United_States
kelnos 11y ago
Only sorta true: "The United States is one of few industrialized countries to have laws criminalizing adultery... Adultery remains a criminal offense in 21 states, although prosecutions are rare." [0] From skimming the rest of the article, it seems adultery is otherwise only criminal in some parts of Asia and Africa. So while I suppose your statement is strictly true, it's not usefully true as a rebuttal of the parent's argument. (I was actually shocked to find that the law is on the books of 21 US states. I know in the US we have some ridiculously stupid laws, but... c'mon. Adultery is reprehensible to me, but... criminal?) [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adultery#United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adultery#United_States
- StavrosK 11y ago
  My point is more that judging moral issues by whether there's a law against them is a facile argument, and that the GP needs a better one. I think we can all agree that cheating is morally reprehensible, and thus its facilitators are not morally justified.
  - richmarr 11y ago
    @Asbostos is victim-blaming and defending viglilantism. Anyone who supports the rule of law should want to see the perpetrator of this on trial. Maybe the company who was breached should also be in court, but that's a different matter entirely.
    - StavrosK 11y ago
      I'm not sure Asbostos doesn't want to see the perpetrator of this on trial, they're just saying that the victim was immoral (and I'm not terribly sorry for them either). I am also not convinced that vigilantism is always wrong. I can't blame the villagers who, after seeing a restaurant owner entice a dog with food only to kill it with a chair, never stepped foot in the restaurant again, effectively bankrupting it.
      - richmarr 11y ago
        I'm not sure Asbostos doesn't want to... Sure, I'll concede an assumption there. I am also not convinced that vigilantism is always wrong 'Wrong' is subjective so that statement is a truism. For a given act of vigilantism there will be a proportion who condone it and a proportion who don't. Who decides? That's what the law is for. It's so we can't all just wander about dispensing 'justice' without accountability. What happens if someone commits suicide because of this hack? Can their kids sue the people responsible? No, they're denied due process. I'm not convinced that law enforcement conducted by the proper authorities is always right, but at least we have some semblence of oversight and accountability and the opportunity to learn from mistakes and improve things. Don't you think it's inconsistent that the hackers themselves are hugely critical of the company they breached for not properly deleting customer data on request; and yet those same people have already started publishing that exact same customer data? They're not even accountable to their own definition of right and wrong. I can't blame the villagers who, after seeing a restaurant owner entice a dog with food only to kill it with a chair, never stepped foot in the restaurant again, effectively bankrupting it. I don't think that fits the definition of vigilantism. Vigilantism is law enforcement undertaken by those without society's authority to do so. What you described above is simple consumer choice, a boycott at worst.

DanBC 11y ago

Adultery is a felony crime in some parts of the US. http://www.theweek.co.uk/62723/adultery-laws-where-is-cheating-still-illegal http://www.theweek.co.uk/62723/adultery-laws-where-is-cheati... > In most states, including New York, cheating on your spouse is considered only a misdemeanour. However, in others like Idaho, Massachusetts, Michigan, Oklahoma and Wisconsin, it is a felony crime. Prosecutions are rare, but they do occur and punishments can range from a $10 fine in Maryland to life imprisonment in Michigan, according to Mother Jones. > http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2011/11/is-adultery-illegal-map http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2011/11/is-adultery-illegal-...