5 ms·

Why is it deserving of this? Genuinely interested.

Asbostos 11y ago
Cheating can cause a lot of emotional harm. Imagine a site for people to commit minor sexual assaults and publish the pictures of the victims. That would be easier to think of as deserving of being hacked though neither is causing tangible physical harm. The article also gives the reason that they apparently falsely sold customers a "delete your information" fee without actually deleting it. That kind of fraud can only really be exposed by hacking or whistleblowing.
- simplexion 11y ago
  No. You are publishing pictures of someone without their permission. That is not the same.
  - Asbostos 11y ago
    Wouldn't you say the nature of the consequences are the same - emotional harm? Although you might judge the degree of harm differently. What problem can publishing pictures of assault cause the victim that doesn't happen with cheating?
- sneak 11y ago
  Cheating is legal. Publishing people's PII is not.
  - Asbostos 11y ago
    Being illegal doesn't necessarily make is more wrong. Those laws are quite peculiar to this time and country. You could say that the laws in a democracy reflect what the people feel is right and wrong, but only on a very coarse level. There are bound to be laws that the majority disagrees with, as well as actions which people agree are wrong but individual cases are so complicated the law wouldn't really be able to handle them, so they're allowed.
    - egeozcan 11y ago
      > Being illegal doesn't necessarily make it more wrong. Those laws are quite peculiar to this time and country. It does make it more wrong, without getting into personal opinions. Morals vary even more across communities, cultures and countries. It's a fallacy to think yours is universal.
  - itistoday2 11y ago
    Legality plays no roll in this argument. Plenty of harmless activities are illegal, and plenty of harmful activities are legal.
  - DanBC 11y ago
    Adultery is illegal in about half of US states. http://www.theweek.co.uk/62723/adultery-laws-where-is-cheating-still-illegal http://www.theweek.co.uk/62723/adultery-laws-where-is-cheati... I agree with sibling replies - the illegality of an action is unimportant when looking at the morality of it.
- wisty 11y ago
  Cheating can also end bad relationships. Which prevents emotional harm. I'm going to go out on a limb, and guess that a lot of the users are kind of ambivalent as to whether their current relationship is going to last. Who else would use a site like that? People who are comfortable lying (e.g. "cheaters") probably just fake a profile on a regular site, and lie to their date as well. Yes, maybe they should approach things differently ... but let's not pretend that everyone is perfect. If people didn't have flaws, I can think of dozens of industries that would vanish overnight.
  - itistoday2 11y ago
    > Cheating can also end bad relationships. Um... cheating is by no means a requirement for ending a relationship. You can simply say, "This relationship is over." Cheating is extremely harmful, and on top of that often unnecessary. Couples should discuss and explore open relationships, and if they are not open to that, end the relationship. In virtually all cases, cheating is a totally unnecessary harm.
    - deleted 11y ago
      [deleted]
    - itistoday2 11y ago
      I can no longer edit this comment, but I want to be clear that "opening a relationship to end it" does not make sense. There are good reasons to open a relationship and bad ones. Make sure you are seeking an open relationship because that is something you actually want. Also make sure to do your research first. I recommend the book, Opening Up.
- cheald 11y ago
  Your example is somewhat fallacious in that sexual assault is, in fact, criminal, and running a platform that encourages and rewards it is potentially an accessory to that crime. Hacking it may in fact be more ethically (though not necessarily legally) justifiable if its demise in fact contributes to the reduction of violence against the site's users' victims. Cheating, morally reprehensible as it may be, is not in the same ballpark. Regarding the "delete your information" fee, I am quite confidant that the lawyers made sure that the service sold was the deletion of your application profile, not the wiping of all traces that you ever did business with the company. To call it fraud is probably premature.
  - StavrosK 11y ago
    Adultery is also criminal in many parts of the world, including the US.
    - richmarr 11y ago
      While that's true, I think it's a little misrepresentative. Obviously it differs by state, but as a whole the US take on adultery is (broadly) religious, so aligns it more closely with other strongly religious countries like Pakistan than with Europe, Japan, etc. "The United States is one of few industrialized countries to have laws criminalizing adultery" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adultery#United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adultery#United_States
    - kelnos 11y ago
      Only sorta true: "The United States is one of few industrialized countries to have laws criminalizing adultery... Adultery remains a criminal offense in 21 states, although prosecutions are rare." [0] From skimming the rest of the article, it seems adultery is otherwise only criminal in some parts of Asia and Africa. So while I suppose your statement is strictly true, it's not usefully true as a rebuttal of the parent's argument. (I was actually shocked to find that the law is on the books of 21 US states. I know in the US we have some ridiculously stupid laws, but... c'mon. Adultery is reprehensible to me, but... criminal?) [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adultery#United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adultery#United_States
- kofejnik 11y ago
  your morals are universal now? You're comparing legal activity between consenting adults to sexual assault, which in itself I find repulsive and worse than cheating
  - Natsu 11y ago
    Adultery is not, in fact, legal in significant portions of the US. I wouldn't say it's like assault, but the aggrieved party is the spouse who is cheated on who is being put at risk of STDs and similar things. Also, while the morals may not be agreed upon by all parties, I think that the people who are hiding it from their spouses are not hiding it because they expect the spouse to agree. There are, after all, significantly more honest ways to handle that sort of thing than going behind your spouse's back. I had never heard of this site until now, but from what little I've seen, it appears to cater to those who are not at all honest about what they're doing. I certainly agree that no one should be going around dispensing vigilante justice or encouraging the same, as well as with the cautions that someone could easily ruin the wrong people with that kind of information, but it's hard not to think that some will end up reaping what they have sowed after this.
  - Asbostos 11y ago
    Does non-violent sexual assault cause any harm other than emotional? That's why I'm making the comparison - we think sexual assault is very bad, while cheating isn't. Yet I don't see the reason for that distinction, except perhaps the degree of emotional harm it causes. But even in that case, it's not always worse. Your argument of "it's repulsive" and "it's worse" doesn't really address the question of why it's worse. What makes it worse? Consent is a bit arbitrary. Eg. price fixing is consentual yet still illegal and most people agree that it's harmful.
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
herbig 11y ago
I don't understand why you're genuinely interested. Whether You agree with the statement or not, you already know why it was made. "Genuinely interested" here is just bate for someone to "genuinely" argue with you and waste their time.
- personjerry 11y ago
  Yep, and in another comment below we can see the trap sprung. It's more effective to just say your disagreement, really.
- simplexion 11y ago
  I am genuinely interested in their reasoning for it. I don't actually know why it was made. You are making assumptions. I was not and that is why I said that. I thought maybe they had poor business practices e.g. treated their employees bad. The person below made a terrible comparison and that is why I responded like that.

Cheating can cause a lot of emotional harm. Imagine a site for people to commit minor sexual assaults and publish the pictures of the victims. That would be easier to think of as deserving of being hacked though neither is causing tangible physical harm. The article also gives the reason that they apparently falsely sold customers a "delete your information" fee without actually deleting it. That kind of fraud can only really be exposed by hacking or whistleblowing.

simplexion 11y ago
No. You are publishing pictures of someone without their permission. That is not the same.
- Asbostos 11y ago
  Wouldn't you say the nature of the consequences are the same - emotional harm? Although you might judge the degree of harm differently. What problem can publishing pictures of assault cause the victim that doesn't happen with cheating?
sneak 11y ago
Cheating is legal. Publishing people's PII is not.
- Asbostos 11y ago
  Being illegal doesn't necessarily make is more wrong. Those laws are quite peculiar to this time and country. You could say that the laws in a democracy reflect what the people feel is right and wrong, but only on a very coarse level. There are bound to be laws that the majority disagrees with, as well as actions which people agree are wrong but individual cases are so complicated the law wouldn't really be able to handle them, so they're allowed.
  - egeozcan 11y ago
    > Being illegal doesn't necessarily make it more wrong. Those laws are quite peculiar to this time and country. It does make it more wrong, without getting into personal opinions. Morals vary even more across communities, cultures and countries. It's a fallacy to think yours is universal.
- itistoday2 11y ago
  Legality plays no roll in this argument. Plenty of harmless activities are illegal, and plenty of harmful activities are legal.
- DanBC 11y ago
  Adultery is illegal in about half of US states. http://www.theweek.co.uk/62723/adultery-laws-where-is-cheating-still-illegal http://www.theweek.co.uk/62723/adultery-laws-where-is-cheati... I agree with sibling replies - the illegality of an action is unimportant when looking at the morality of it.
wisty 11y ago
Cheating can also end bad relationships. Which prevents emotional harm. I'm going to go out on a limb, and guess that a lot of the users are kind of ambivalent as to whether their current relationship is going to last. Who else would use a site like that? People who are comfortable lying (e.g. "cheaters") probably just fake a profile on a regular site, and lie to their date as well. Yes, maybe they should approach things differently ... but let's not pretend that everyone is perfect. If people didn't have flaws, I can think of dozens of industries that would vanish overnight.
- itistoday2 11y ago
  > Cheating can also end bad relationships. Um... cheating is by no means a requirement for ending a relationship. You can simply say, "This relationship is over." Cheating is extremely harmful, and on top of that often unnecessary. Couples should discuss and explore open relationships, and if they are not open to that, end the relationship. In virtually all cases, cheating is a totally unnecessary harm.
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
  - itistoday2 11y ago
    I can no longer edit this comment, but I want to be clear that "opening a relationship to end it" does not make sense. There are good reasons to open a relationship and bad ones. Make sure you are seeking an open relationship because that is something you actually want. Also make sure to do your research first. I recommend the book, Opening Up.
cheald 11y ago
Your example is somewhat fallacious in that sexual assault is, in fact, criminal, and running a platform that encourages and rewards it is potentially an accessory to that crime. Hacking it may in fact be more ethically (though not necessarily legally) justifiable if its demise in fact contributes to the reduction of violence against the site's users' victims. Cheating, morally reprehensible as it may be, is not in the same ballpark. Regarding the "delete your information" fee, I am quite confidant that the lawyers made sure that the service sold was the deletion of your application profile, not the wiping of all traces that you ever did business with the company. To call it fraud is probably premature.
- StavrosK 11y ago
  Adultery is also criminal in many parts of the world, including the US.
  - richmarr 11y ago
    While that's true, I think it's a little misrepresentative. Obviously it differs by state, but as a whole the US take on adultery is (broadly) religious, so aligns it more closely with other strongly religious countries like Pakistan than with Europe, Japan, etc. "The United States is one of few industrialized countries to have laws criminalizing adultery" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adultery#United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adultery#United_States
  - kelnos 11y ago
    Only sorta true: "The United States is one of few industrialized countries to have laws criminalizing adultery... Adultery remains a criminal offense in 21 states, although prosecutions are rare." [0] From skimming the rest of the article, it seems adultery is otherwise only criminal in some parts of Asia and Africa. So while I suppose your statement is strictly true, it's not usefully true as a rebuttal of the parent's argument. (I was actually shocked to find that the law is on the books of 21 US states. I know in the US we have some ridiculously stupid laws, but... c'mon. Adultery is reprehensible to me, but... criminal?) [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adultery#United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adultery#United_States
kofejnik 11y ago
your morals are universal now? You're comparing legal activity between consenting adults to sexual assault, which in itself I find repulsive and worse than cheating
- Natsu 11y ago
  Adultery is not, in fact, legal in significant portions of the US. I wouldn't say it's like assault, but the aggrieved party is the spouse who is cheated on who is being put at risk of STDs and similar things. Also, while the morals may not be agreed upon by all parties, I think that the people who are hiding it from their spouses are not hiding it because they expect the spouse to agree. There are, after all, significantly more honest ways to handle that sort of thing than going behind your spouse's back. I had never heard of this site until now, but from what little I've seen, it appears to cater to those who are not at all honest about what they're doing. I certainly agree that no one should be going around dispensing vigilante justice or encouraging the same, as well as with the cautions that someone could easily ruin the wrong people with that kind of information, but it's hard not to think that some will end up reaping what they have sowed after this.
- Asbostos 11y ago
  Does non-violent sexual assault cause any harm other than emotional? That's why I'm making the comparison - we think sexual assault is very bad, while cheating isn't. Yet I don't see the reason for that distinction, except perhaps the degree of emotional harm it causes. But even in that case, it's not always worse. Your argument of "it's repulsive" and "it's worse" doesn't really address the question of why it's worse. What makes it worse? Consent is a bit arbitrary. Eg. price fixing is consentual yet still illegal and most people agree that it's harmful.

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

herbig 11y ago

I don't understand why you're genuinely interested. Whether You agree with the statement or not, you already know why it was made. "Genuinely interested" here is just bate for someone to "genuinely" argue with you and waste their time.

personjerry 11y ago
Yep, and in another comment below we can see the trap sprung. It's more effective to just say your disagreement, really.
simplexion 11y ago
I am genuinely interested in their reasoning for it. I don't actually know why it was made. You are making assumptions. I was not and that is why I said that. I thought maybe they had poor business practices e.g. treated their employees bad. The person below made a terrible comparison and that is why I responded like that.