5 ms·

So I'm not allowed to discuss what these people are giving up in the name of "freedom"? That the fact that this is a refurbished machine from seven years ago sh

So I'm not allowed to discuss what these people are giving up in the name of "freedom"? That the fact that this is a refurbished machine from seven years ago shouldn't be brought up? That functionality was removed in order to, through some bizarre twist of logic, make the machine "more free"? Given that this is a machine that is built in the name of ideology, I would argue that questioning aspects of that ideology, and what is demanded to acheive their idea of purity, is more than fair game.

rosser 11y ago
You're perfectly free to discuss it. Your posts read more like telling people they're wrong in finding these machines suitable for their purposes than just discussing the tradeoffs they're making. Even this comment, with clearly un-biased turns of phrase like "bizarre twist of logic" and "their idea of purity" conveys a conviction on your part that these people aren't merely wrong, but deluded. Tone down your dismissal of other people's needs and use-cases, and we can have a discussion. Remember, RMS uses a Libreboot-based x60, which is even less machine than the x200 under discussion here. Are you going to tell him he's wrong, too?
- Sanddancer 11y ago
  I feel that the machine here is borne more out of ideology than logic or necessity. The laptops in question, and the software installed, are designed to take away any ability to do things that the designers do not like. For example, the ability to update the CPU's microcode, or load firmware for numerous devices. I would argue the rational approach would be to not ship the firmware, but keep the drivers in place for a user to use them and the firmware, if they so desire. Regarding RMS, I do not feel that he is a good spokesperson for the Free Software movement, or computing in general. He's requested people to delete Free software and pretend it doesn't exist because it could potentially be used with unwritten software to potentially allow a non-free program to use gcc as part of its chain [1]. He has criticized software because it allows interoperation with a perceived enemy [2]. Lower down on my list of criticisms would be his use of the x60, because it is in a lot of ways saying that free software is an inferior good. Instead of trying to work with a team to create a completely open laptop, like Bunnie Huang has done [3], or use a Chromebook that runs a Free software boot environment by design, he uses a very old laptop instead. Which in the end, is one of the biggest flaws with RMS's operations. He seems unwilling to show that one can use Free, modern, devices and still not limit himself. I use sharp words because I am tired of the lack of vision, lack of foresight, and lack of creativity from the gnu branch of free/open software. Modifying a seven year old laptop and making it less functional is not revolutionary or interesting. Selling said item for a three time markup is not revolutionary or interesting. There are more than enough options out there, the Free software community needs to put up or shut up. [1] https://gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc/2001-02/msg00895.html https://gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc/2001-02/msg00895.html [2] http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2015-02/msg00360.html http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2015-02/msg003... [3] http://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/?tag=novena http://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/?tag=novena
  - madez 11y ago
    I also think your tone is inappropiate. And your justification I use sharp words because I am tired of the lack of vision, lack of foresight, and lack of creativity from the gnu branch of free/open software. discredits you.

rosser 11y ago

You're perfectly free to discuss it. Your posts read more like telling people they're wrong in finding these machines suitable for their purposes than just discussing the tradeoffs they're making. Even this comment, with clearly un-biased turns of phrase like "bizarre twist of logic" and "their idea of purity" conveys a conviction on your part that these people aren't merely wrong, but deluded. Tone down your dismissal of other people's needs and use-cases, and we can have a discussion. Remember, RMS uses a Libreboot-based x60, which is even less machine than the x200 under discussion here. Are you going to tell him he's wrong, too?

Sanddancer 11y ago
I feel that the machine here is borne more out of ideology than logic or necessity. The laptops in question, and the software installed, are designed to take away any ability to do things that the designers do not like. For example, the ability to update the CPU's microcode, or load firmware for numerous devices. I would argue the rational approach would be to not ship the firmware, but keep the drivers in place for a user to use them and the firmware, if they so desire. Regarding RMS, I do not feel that he is a good spokesperson for the Free Software movement, or computing in general. He's requested people to delete Free software and pretend it doesn't exist because it could potentially be used with unwritten software to potentially allow a non-free program to use gcc as part of its chain [1]. He has criticized software because it allows interoperation with a perceived enemy [2]. Lower down on my list of criticisms would be his use of the x60, because it is in a lot of ways saying that free software is an inferior good. Instead of trying to work with a team to create a completely open laptop, like Bunnie Huang has done [3], or use a Chromebook that runs a Free software boot environment by design, he uses a very old laptop instead. Which in the end, is one of the biggest flaws with RMS's operations. He seems unwilling to show that one can use Free, modern, devices and still not limit himself. I use sharp words because I am tired of the lack of vision, lack of foresight, and lack of creativity from the gnu branch of free/open software. Modifying a seven year old laptop and making it less functional is not revolutionary or interesting. Selling said item for a three time markup is not revolutionary or interesting. There are more than enough options out there, the Free software community needs to put up or shut up. [1] https://gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc/2001-02/msg00895.html https://gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc/2001-02/msg00895.html [2] http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2015-02/msg00360.html http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2015-02/msg003... [3] http://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/?tag=novena http://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/?tag=novena
- madez 11y ago
  I also think your tone is inappropiate. And your justification I use sharp words because I am tired of the lack of vision, lack of foresight, and lack of creativity from the gnu branch of free/open software. discredits you.