5 ms·

Modus Operandi: Poses as an investor to be wined and dined, then disappears

106 points by levifig 11y ago

lingben 11y ago
I'm rather confused why not contact a lawyer and pursue legal action? world-glance.com screams caution since there is so much missing, team info, personal names & bios, contact, address, etc. and it was only registered in Feb 2015 and has whois privacy protection http://whois.domaintools.com/world-glance.com http://whois.domaintools.com/world-glance.com privacy protection is not normally an issue but when a COMPANY (not personal!) webpage has no personal details, address, phone, etc. it is a huge redflag don't mean to criticize a victim of fraud but no reputable VC or investor would be asking for money for petty expenses like a cab or flight, etc. The whole point of this is that they are the ones that are supposed to have money and they may or may not give it to you. Not the other way around :/ But I get it, she was using the 'boiling frog' strategy
- npsomaratna 11y ago
  I agree. Also, publishing this stuff online might weaken his legal hand.
- aikah 11y ago
  Absolutely, the owner of this website could be sued for slander. If everything in this story is true then just sue Cecile because she obviously committed fraud, the case should be a slam dunk. Then expose her once she has been sentenced to prison. edit: Cecile's website is a joke : http://world-glance.com/ http://world-glance.com/ Does it look like a serious VC to anybody? there is absolutely no information whatsoever. Remember the legend about about nigerian scammers? they make it so obvious it is a scam to screen people, that website feels a bit like that.
  - loceng 11y ago
    Slander is for false statements, it doesn't look like these are false.
  - fleitz 11y ago
    That would presuppose Celine has money to afford lawyers, if she does, that would be the point to recover the funds, and/or countersue for fraud.
  - declan 11y ago
    > sue Cecile... Then expose her once she has been sentenced to prison. First, if you sue someone, it's a civil action, not a criminal prosecution. Second, if any statements are defamatory, they would be libel, not slander. Third, truth is an absolute defense against libel claims. (And just for completeness, the U.S. does not have criminal libel laws.)
    - _delirium 11y ago
      > the U.S. does not have criminal libel laws Some states do have criminal-libel laws, though there isn't a federal one. See: http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/criminal-libel-statutes-state-by-state http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/criminal-libel-statutes-...
      - declan 11y ago
        Quite right. I should have been more clear: Criminal libel laws may still be in the statute books, much like laws may still exist requiring someone carrying a red flag to walk in front of horseless carriages. But we should expect prosecutions under criminal libel laws to fail because of the modern interpretation of the First Amendment (and state constitutional protections that may be broader). For instance a court in the 1990s struck down Montana's criminal libel law as unconstitutional: https://casetext.com/case/state-v-helfrich-1 https://casetext.com/case/state-v-helfrich-1 But as far as I know it is still on the books.
  - hluska 11y ago
    Between: a) absolutely horrible, meaningless copy. b) A very poorly designed website. c) a very weird photo of gazelle which appears to have been taken from aliexpress.com (http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Animal-Gazelle-2-Poster-3-Sizes-Silk-Fabric-Canvas-Poster-Print/32366799006.html http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Animal-Gazelle-2-Poster-3-Siz...) d) a host shared by another 18,000 websites (according to Bing) This company genuinely does not look real. I understand that the writer would be extremely excited by the prospect of a $4m investment, but I also feel like he should have done a little more due diligence. Based on what I see, I can't imagine genuinely expecting to receive $4m from this firm...
    - hackaflocka 11y ago
      Hi there -- please share how one can find out how many websites are sharing a host via Bing. Thanks!
      - icelancer 11y ago
        Just use DNSstuff. Her site is simply a branded Wordpress.com account. http://www.dnsstuff.com/tools#dnsReport|type=domain&&value=cecileortlieb.com http://www.dnsstuff.com/tools#dnsReport|type=domain&&value=c...
        hluska 11y ago
        Two things. First, cecileortlieb.com is not actually Cecile's website - it is the website that hosted that article which claims that she is a scammer. Cecile claims to be with world-glance.com. He site would be here: http://www.dnsstuff.com/tools#dnsReport|type=domain&&value=world-glance.com http://www.dnsstuff.com/tools#dnsReport|type=domain&&value=w... Second, dnsstuff is great - I haven't used it before, but I have it bookmarked now.
      - hluska 11y ago
        Hi there; I don't know if Bing's numbers are completely accurate and you may find better ways to get this information (dnsstuff.com is sure useful). In this case, I was looking into world-glance.com so I will use that website as an example. 1) ping world-glance.com - this shows an IP address of 94.136.40.15 2) Go to bing.com - search for 'IP:94.136.40.15' (without the quotes) It will show 18,800 results. I hope that this helps...:)
- _delirium 11y ago
  If all she's been getting out of the "potential investor" scam is free dinners/trips/etc. and doesn't have significant assets, suing her is probably a money-losing proposition.
  - giarc 11y ago
    As the author mentioned, perhaps she stole something from their house or normally would but the camera's made her stray from her usual tactics.
  - bosie 11y ago
    since i don't know how to contact you elsewhere, I am going to ask in a thread. I just noticed in your profile you mentioned moving from copenhagen to the US. what happened?
    - _delirium 11y ago
      Family & work reasons. My parents live in the U.S., and I had a contract position at a university in Copenhagen that was extended a few times and recently ended, so it was a good time for a move. Copenhagen's a nice place to live though!
      - bosie 11y ago
        Thanks for the reply, I will miss your insights on HN about copenhagen and denmark!
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- revelation 11y ago
  Presumably that isn't her name.
  - giarc 11y ago
    I was thinking the same thing, but if he was booking her plane tickets (or other people have in the past) would they not need to book user her real name (so it matches her passport).
- morgante 11y ago
  > I'm rather confused why not contact a lawyer and pursue legal action? It sounds like all she really got was a few meals, lodging for a few days, and a taxi ride. It would cost the author much more to sue than he could recover.
- beagle3 11y ago
  > I'm rather confused why not contact a lawyer and pursue legal action? What kind of legal action would you pursue? She likely has no funds whatsoever to go after. I would contact a lawyer in this case, for sure - but I don't think it makes any sense to pursue legal action here - legal action is very expensive, and it is very likely throwing good money after bad money. The only actions that make sense to me are police/interpol complaints, and (possibly, depending on lawyer advice) public naming and shaming - which this website does. Note that the "naming and shaming" doesn't actually give anything back to those who were scammed - it's mostly a public service for the rest of the world.
- peterjancelis 11y ago
  Sue for what? Cecile sounds very broke to me...
pg_is_a_butt 11y ago
this is why women aren't allowed to vote.
crablar 11y ago
This post is worse than Cecile's actions. She's obviously not right in the head, you are basically saying "Watch out for crazy people", and she has to be the scapegoat for your messaging. This is super cruel and merciless.
- mrbtie 11y ago
  "This is super cruel and merciless." srsly, dude? have we lost all perspective?
- manis404 11y ago
  >super cruel and merciless That's how it should be to keep the ecosystem as clean as possible.
- giarc 11y ago
  I don't think she's "not right in the head", nothing to me said mental health problems. She just seems like she is scamming people and quite smart about it.
nycspicebo 11y ago
Brian Lefevre
idlewords 11y ago
I have extensive experience prosecuting cases like this and would be happy to assist the OP. I ask that he fly me to New York City at his earliest convenience (after wiring me a good-faith deposit) so that we may discuss this in person.
gkoberger 11y ago
Having read through this, it seems less like she wanted to be wined and dined (given how the "victim" flew to London), and more that she just wanted to seem important. A lot of people want to be VCs; and it turns out you can get most of the VC experience without having money if you just never invest. (On the flip side, a lot of people want to be entrepreneurs but have no product.) Having been through bad experiences with wannabe investors in the past, I made a rule that I would only ever deal with investors that were well-known or were heavily vouched for by someone I knew that had been invested in by them.
anon1385 11y ago
>Though the most successful founders are usually good people, they tend to have a piratical gleam in their eye. They're not Goody Two-Shoes type good. Morally, they care about getting the big questions right, but not about observing proprieties. That's why I'd use the word naughty rather than evil. They delight in breaking rules, but not rules that matter. Sounds like a perfect YC founder to me. http://www.paulgraham.com/founders.html http://www.paulgraham.com/founders.html
DanBC 11y ago
What did the police say when you filed a report?
glynjackson 11y ago
I really feel sorry for the guy, but even just a few simple due diligence checks would have shown the company has no money even the accounts are overdue: http://companycheck.co.uk/company/07335249/WORLD-GLANCE-LIMITED http://companycheck.co.uk/company/07335249/WORLD-GLANCE-LIMI... http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk//compdetails http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk//compdetails On top of that the website screams fake. A limited company should always show company number and have contact details.
ild 11y ago
The apartment is so hipster/yapster (bikes on the wall, the kitchen design), it is actually tacky.
laurentoget 11y ago
maybe she is a performance artist making a movie about how out of touch with reality startup executives are.
bbcbasic 11y ago
Scammers prey on people who want things so badly that they blind their instincts. I think the lesson is to not be desperate for investment and assume an equal standing of both parties (i.e. the investor is not some superior deity). Also an appropriate due diligence throughout the whole process.
kossTKR 11y ago
My impression is that much of top-tier financing is riddled with people like her, maybe not as unstable, but just as ruthless and without any empathic regards at all. The only difference is the numbers and the complexity of the scams committed. Spiderwebs of companies, incomprehensible systems and networks of hedge-funds, company-carousels, lobbyism, and straight up corruption. Just look at the scandals of the last ten years. The fact that webpages like this are not made about them and mostly about low-level charlatans, is because of the legal repercussions.
Frozenlock 11y ago
It's the little things, but I read > Hindsight is 2020 as "Hindsight is two thousand twenty" I would invite the writers to use '20-20'.
- erikwiffin 11y ago
  The expression comes from a measurement of visual acuity, the correct notation would be 20/20.
  - Frozenlock 11y ago
    Or that. Really, anything else than 2020.
marczellm 11y ago
Cecile's text messages are horribly sloppy regarding spelling and grammar, I'd never trust a person like that.

106 points by levifig 11y ago

I'm rather confused why not contact a lawyer and pursue legal action? world-glance.com screams caution since there is so much missing, team info, personal names & bios, contact, address, etc. and it was only registered in Feb 2015 and has whois privacy protection http://whois.domaintools.com/world-glance.com http://whois.domaintools.com/world-glance.com privacy protection is not normally an issue but when a COMPANY (not personal!) webpage has no personal details, address, phone, etc. it is a huge redflag don't mean to criticize a victim of fraud but no reputable VC or investor would be asking for money for petty expenses like a cab or flight, etc. The whole point of this is that they are the ones that are supposed to have money and they may or may not give it to you. Not the other way around :/ But I get it, she was using the 'boiling frog' strategy

npsomaratna 11y ago
I agree. Also, publishing this stuff online might weaken his legal hand.
aikah 11y ago
Absolutely, the owner of this website could be sued for slander. If everything in this story is true then just sue Cecile because she obviously committed fraud, the case should be a slam dunk. Then expose her once she has been sentenced to prison. edit: Cecile's website is a joke : http://world-glance.com/ http://world-glance.com/ Does it look like a serious VC to anybody? there is absolutely no information whatsoever. Remember the legend about about nigerian scammers? they make it so obvious it is a scam to screen people, that website feels a bit like that.
- loceng 11y ago
  Slander is for false statements, it doesn't look like these are false.
- fleitz 11y ago
  That would presuppose Celine has money to afford lawyers, if she does, that would be the point to recover the funds, and/or countersue for fraud.
- declan 11y ago
  > sue Cecile... Then expose her once she has been sentenced to prison. First, if you sue someone, it's a civil action, not a criminal prosecution. Second, if any statements are defamatory, they would be libel, not slander. Third, truth is an absolute defense against libel claims. (And just for completeness, the U.S. does not have criminal libel laws.)
  - _delirium 11y ago
    > the U.S. does not have criminal libel laws Some states do have criminal-libel laws, though there isn't a federal one. See: http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/criminal-libel-statutes-state-by-state http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/criminal-libel-statutes-...
    - declan 11y ago
      Quite right. I should have been more clear: Criminal libel laws may still be in the statute books, much like laws may still exist requiring someone carrying a red flag to walk in front of horseless carriages. But we should expect prosecutions under criminal libel laws to fail because of the modern interpretation of the First Amendment (and state constitutional protections that may be broader). For instance a court in the 1990s struck down Montana's criminal libel law as unconstitutional: https://casetext.com/case/state-v-helfrich-1 https://casetext.com/case/state-v-helfrich-1 But as far as I know it is still on the books.
- hluska 11y ago
  Between: a) absolutely horrible, meaningless copy. b) A very poorly designed website. c) a very weird photo of gazelle which appears to have been taken from aliexpress.com (http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Animal-Gazelle-2-Poster-3-Sizes-Silk-Fabric-Canvas-Poster-Print/32366799006.html http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Animal-Gazelle-2-Poster-3-Siz...) d) a host shared by another 18,000 websites (according to Bing) This company genuinely does not look real. I understand that the writer would be extremely excited by the prospect of a $4m investment, but I also feel like he should have done a little more due diligence. Based on what I see, I can't imagine genuinely expecting to receive $4m from this firm...
  - hackaflocka 11y ago
    Hi there -- please share how one can find out how many websites are sharing a host via Bing. Thanks!
    - icelancer 11y ago
      Just use DNSstuff. Her site is simply a branded Wordpress.com account. http://www.dnsstuff.com/tools#dnsReport|type=domain&&value=cecileortlieb.com http://www.dnsstuff.com/tools#dnsReport|type=domain&&value=c...
      - hluska 11y ago
        Two things. First, cecileortlieb.com is not actually Cecile's website - it is the website that hosted that article which claims that she is a scammer. Cecile claims to be with world-glance.com. He site would be here: http://www.dnsstuff.com/tools#dnsReport|type=domain&&value=world-glance.com http://www.dnsstuff.com/tools#dnsReport|type=domain&&value=w... Second, dnsstuff is great - I haven't used it before, but I have it bookmarked now.
    - hluska 11y ago
      Hi there; I don't know if Bing's numbers are completely accurate and you may find better ways to get this information (dnsstuff.com is sure useful). In this case, I was looking into world-glance.com so I will use that website as an example. 1) ping world-glance.com - this shows an IP address of 94.136.40.15 2) Go to bing.com - search for 'IP:94.136.40.15' (without the quotes) It will show 18,800 results. I hope that this helps...:)
_delirium 11y ago
If all she's been getting out of the "potential investor" scam is free dinners/trips/etc. and doesn't have significant assets, suing her is probably a money-losing proposition.
- giarc 11y ago
  As the author mentioned, perhaps she stole something from their house or normally would but the camera's made her stray from her usual tactics.
- bosie 11y ago
  since i don't know how to contact you elsewhere, I am going to ask in a thread. I just noticed in your profile you mentioned moving from copenhagen to the US. what happened?
  - _delirium 11y ago
    Family & work reasons. My parents live in the U.S., and I had a contract position at a university in Copenhagen that was extended a few times and recently ended, so it was a good time for a move. Copenhagen's a nice place to live though!
    - bosie 11y ago
      Thanks for the reply, I will miss your insights on HN about copenhagen and denmark!
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
revelation 11y ago
Presumably that isn't her name.
- giarc 11y ago
  I was thinking the same thing, but if he was booking her plane tickets (or other people have in the past) would they not need to book user her real name (so it matches her passport).
morgante 11y ago
> I'm rather confused why not contact a lawyer and pursue legal action? It sounds like all she really got was a few meals, lodging for a few days, and a taxi ride. It would cost the author much more to sue than he could recover.
beagle3 11y ago
> I'm rather confused why not contact a lawyer and pursue legal action? What kind of legal action would you pursue? She likely has no funds whatsoever to go after. I would contact a lawyer in this case, for sure - but I don't think it makes any sense to pursue legal action here - legal action is very expensive, and it is very likely throwing good money after bad money. The only actions that make sense to me are police/interpol complaints, and (possibly, depending on lawyer advice) public naming and shaming - which this website does. Note that the "naming and shaming" doesn't actually give anything back to those who were scammed - it's mostly a public service for the rest of the world.
peterjancelis 11y ago
Sue for what? Cecile sounds very broke to me...

pg_is_a_butt 11y ago

this is why women aren't allowed to vote.

crablar 11y ago

This post is worse than Cecile's actions. She's obviously not right in the head, you are basically saying "Watch out for crazy people", and she has to be the scapegoat for your messaging. This is super cruel and merciless.

mrbtie 11y ago
"This is super cruel and merciless." srsly, dude? have we lost all perspective?
manis404 11y ago
>super cruel and merciless That's how it should be to keep the ecosystem as clean as possible.
giarc 11y ago
I don't think she's "not right in the head", nothing to me said mental health problems. She just seems like she is scamming people and quite smart about it.

nycspicebo 11y ago

Brian Lefevre

idlewords 11y ago

I have extensive experience prosecuting cases like this and would be happy to assist the OP. I ask that he fly me to New York City at his earliest convenience (after wiring me a good-faith deposit) so that we may discuss this in person.

gkoberger 11y ago

Having read through this, it seems less like she wanted to be wined and dined (given how the "victim" flew to London), and more that she just wanted to seem important. A lot of people want to be VCs; and it turns out you can get most of the VC experience without having money if you just never invest. (On the flip side, a lot of people want to be entrepreneurs but have no product.) Having been through bad experiences with wannabe investors in the past, I made a rule that I would only ever deal with investors that were well-known or were heavily vouched for by someone I knew that had been invested in by them.

anon1385 11y ago

>Though the most successful founders are usually good people, they tend to have a piratical gleam in their eye. They're not Goody Two-Shoes type good. Morally, they care about getting the big questions right, but not about observing proprieties. That's why I'd use the word naughty rather than evil. They delight in breaking rules, but not rules that matter. Sounds like a perfect YC founder to me. http://www.paulgraham.com/founders.html http://www.paulgraham.com/founders.html

DanBC 11y ago

What did the police say when you filed a report?

glynjackson 11y ago

I really feel sorry for the guy, but even just a few simple due diligence checks would have shown the company has no money even the accounts are overdue: http://companycheck.co.uk/company/07335249/WORLD-GLANCE-LIMITED http://companycheck.co.uk/company/07335249/WORLD-GLANCE-LIMI... http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk//compdetails http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk//compdetails On top of that the website screams fake. A limited company should always show company number and have contact details.

ild 11y ago

The apartment is so hipster/yapster (bikes on the wall, the kitchen design), it is actually tacky.

laurentoget 11y ago

maybe she is a performance artist making a movie about how out of touch with reality startup executives are.

bbcbasic 11y ago

Scammers prey on people who want things so badly that they blind their instincts. I think the lesson is to not be desperate for investment and assume an equal standing of both parties (i.e. the investor is not some superior deity). Also an appropriate due diligence throughout the whole process.

kossTKR 11y ago

My impression is that much of top-tier financing is riddled with people like her, maybe not as unstable, but just as ruthless and without any empathic regards at all. The only difference is the numbers and the complexity of the scams committed. Spiderwebs of companies, incomprehensible systems and networks of hedge-funds, company-carousels, lobbyism, and straight up corruption. Just look at the scandals of the last ten years. The fact that webpages like this are not made about them and mostly about low-level charlatans, is because of the legal repercussions.

Frozenlock 11y ago

It's the little things, but I read > Hindsight is 2020 as "Hindsight is two thousand twenty" I would invite the writers to use '20-20'.

erikwiffin 11y ago
The expression comes from a measurement of visual acuity, the correct notation would be 20/20.
- Frozenlock 11y ago
  Or that. Really, anything else than 2020.

marczellm 11y ago

Cecile's text messages are horribly sloppy regarding spelling and grammar, I'd never trust a person like that.