4 ms·

Despite the drastic page limit in the category I was submitting in, I made sure to include a paragraph about how GC enable sharing and how the only reasonable a

Despite the drastic page limit in the category I was submitting in, I made sure to include a paragraph about how GC enable sharing and how the only reasonable alternative when implementing a similar system in a non-GC language is a lot of gratuitous copying to solve ownership issues in http://frama-c.com/u3cat/download/CuoqICFP09.pdf http://frama-c.com/u3cat/download/CuoqICFP09.pdf (The page limit was 4. Organizers only raised it to 6 after seeing submitted papers.) I can also confirm the “bit of due diligence” part, and the fact that it's cheaper that the aggravation of not having memory management at all. In the example that I can contribute to the discussion, the due diligence amounted to two more short articles: http://cristal.inria.fr/~doligez/publications/cuoq-doligez-mlw-2008.pdf http://cristal.inria.fr/~doligez/publications/cuoq-doligez-m... and http://blog.frama-c.com/public/unmarshal.pdf http://blog.frama-c.com/public/unmarshal.pdf

masklinn 11y ago
> GC enable sharing and how the only reasonable alternative when implementing a similar system in a non-GC language is a lot of gratuitous copying to solve ownership issues The solution to unclear or shared ownership is generally reference counting. There's a reason why shared_ptr is called that.
- pjmlp 11y ago
  With the usual set of locks, cache contention and pauses on cascade deletions of deep datastructures it brings.
  - masklinn 11y ago
    You don't need locks to RC immutable structures, just atomics (and not even that if the system is single-threaded)
- pascal_cuoq 11y ago
  Reference counting is a garbage-collection system like the others (and if you are going to use a garbage-collection system, you can for many usecases do better than reference counting).
  - masklinn 11y ago
    > Reference counting is a garbage-collection system like the others Reference counting is a form of automated memory management which can easily be integrated and used in a manually-managed system, and can be used for a specific subset of the in-memory structures (again see shared_ptr). Not so for more complex garbage collection systems which tend to interact badly with manual or ownership-based memory management. Putting the lie to your assertion that the only way to implement sharing in a non-GC language is "gratuitous copying".
    - pascal_cuoq 11y ago
      Yes, it's a shame that you were not a reviewer, mid-2009, of my article published in September 2009.

masklinn 11y ago

> GC enable sharing and how the only reasonable alternative when implementing a similar system in a non-GC language is a lot of gratuitous copying to solve ownership issues The solution to unclear or shared ownership is generally reference counting. There's a reason why shared_ptr is called that.

pjmlp 11y ago
With the usual set of locks, cache contention and pauses on cascade deletions of deep datastructures it brings.
- masklinn 11y ago
  You don't need locks to RC immutable structures, just atomics (and not even that if the system is single-threaded)
pascal_cuoq 11y ago
Reference counting is a garbage-collection system like the others (and if you are going to use a garbage-collection system, you can for many usecases do better than reference counting).
- masklinn 11y ago
  > Reference counting is a garbage-collection system like the others Reference counting is a form of automated memory management which can easily be integrated and used in a manually-managed system, and can be used for a specific subset of the in-memory structures (again see shared_ptr). Not so for more complex garbage collection systems which tend to interact badly with manual or ownership-based memory management. Putting the lie to your assertion that the only way to implement sharing in a non-GC language is "gratuitous copying".
  - pascal_cuoq 11y ago
    Yes, it's a shame that you were not a reviewer, mid-2009, of my article published in September 2009.