3 ms·

>You must take some risk. DB pensions have no risk at all, tell it to them.

tosseraccount 11y ago
Well, based on this : https://institutional.vanguard.com/iam/pdf/ICRSDB.pdf https://institutional.vanguard.com/iam/pdf/ICRSDB.pdf ( Survey of Defined Benefit Plan Sponsors, 2012) DB plans are about 50% equities ( domestic + international).
hga 11y ago
That would be news to the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pension_Benefit_Guaranty_Corporation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pension_Benefit_Guaranty_Corpo...), which I'll note was set up in 1974. Yeah, it's for private plans, but no one who's been following current affairs is surprised by what's been happening with government pensions, if you study much economic history you'll know municipalities went bankrupt during the Great Depression, and that the Federal government massive devalued the dollar in the early '30s when it seized all of our gold.
- tosseraccount 11y ago
  Actually, Plutonium deliverable on short notice is the base for U.S. currency; not gold stored in vault. A government’s ability to back its currency is the basis of currency value; not hoarding metal bars. Churchill considered his return to the gold standard the greatest mistake of his life. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winston_Churchill https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winston_Churchill
  - hga 11y ago
    Perhaps; I'm not sure we have the will to enforce that, and I'm sure we don't against other nuclear powers. But it's true that there's a correlation between relevant military power and currencies, Switzerland is an example. But I'm talking about FDR's Executive Order 6102 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_6102 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_6102), which seized the nation's private gold bullion stores at $20.67/oz, and then repriced it for international transactions at $35/oz. Per Wikipedia and the current BLS inflation statistics, that was $51.40 billion in 2015 dollars confiscated from the American people. National level politicians are already starting to talk about helping themselves to private retirement money; my major point is that there's no guarantees in this domain (once you go beyond your family).
    - tosseraccount 11y ago
      I obviously touched a raw nerve among the gold bugs. Sorry; but some people think gold is just a metal. Why not back a currency with tin or lead? I know! Cattle would be the best commodity. No? How about gasoline? According to this ... http://www.nma.org/pdf/gold/his_gold_prices.pdf http://www.nma.org/pdf/gold/his_gold_prices.pdf Gold was not $35, it was $26 ounce at the time. After a recent run up no less. Where did you get your info, some Rand Paul/Zero Hedge site? FDR did this to expand the money supply. The U.S. was suffering from deflation. Do any countries actually back their currency with gold? Any modern country ? Not "stores a bunch" but actively exchanges currency for gold on a consumer level?
      - hga 11y ago
        I referred to gold in the 1933 Executive Order because world trade was then, and until Nixon closed the gold window in 1971, a world standard for trade. Hence FDR's action having measurable effects of all sorts (and I'll add that the major virtue of something like a gold standard is that it makes it obvious when the government decides to start cheating the people). As for where I got my specific figures, the notorious "Rand Paul/Zero Hedge" site known as Wikipedia, a link to which I included, specifically https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_6102 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_6102 for prices (and this matches my memory from other, independent sources, including the history that got brought up when Ford signed a bill in 1974 allowing us to again own gold): Executive Order 6102 required all persons to deliver on or before May 1, 1933, all but a small amount of gold coin, gold bullion, and gold certificates owned by them to the Federal Reserve, in exchange for $20.67 (equivalent to $376.58 today[4]) per troy ounce.... [ Exemptions. ] The price of gold from the Treasury for international transactions was thereafter raised to $35 an ounce ($587 in 2010 dollars). The resulting profit that the government realized funded the Exchange Stabilization Fund established by the Gold Reserve Act in 1934. Click through the latter link for the value I then plugged into http://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm http://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm to get 2015 dollars.

Well, based on this : https://institutional.vanguard.com/iam/pdf/ICRSDB.pdf https://institutional.vanguard.com/iam/pdf/ICRSDB.pdf ( Survey of Defined Benefit Plan Sponsors, 2012) DB plans are about 50% equities ( domestic + international).

hga 11y ago

That would be news to the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pension_Benefit_Guaranty_Corporation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pension_Benefit_Guaranty_Corpo...), which I'll note was set up in 1974. Yeah, it's for private plans, but no one who's been following current affairs is surprised by what's been happening with government pensions, if you study much economic history you'll know municipalities went bankrupt during the Great Depression, and that the Federal government massive devalued the dollar in the early '30s when it seized all of our gold.

tosseraccount 11y ago
Actually, Plutonium deliverable on short notice is the base for U.S. currency; not gold stored in vault. A government’s ability to back its currency is the basis of currency value; not hoarding metal bars. Churchill considered his return to the gold standard the greatest mistake of his life. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winston_Churchill https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winston_Churchill
- hga 11y ago
  Perhaps; I'm not sure we have the will to enforce that, and I'm sure we don't against other nuclear powers. But it's true that there's a correlation between relevant military power and currencies, Switzerland is an example. But I'm talking about FDR's Executive Order 6102 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_6102 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_6102), which seized the nation's private gold bullion stores at $20.67/oz, and then repriced it for international transactions at $35/oz. Per Wikipedia and the current BLS inflation statistics, that was $51.40 billion in 2015 dollars confiscated from the American people. National level politicians are already starting to talk about helping themselves to private retirement money; my major point is that there's no guarantees in this domain (once you go beyond your family).
  - tosseraccount 11y ago
    I obviously touched a raw nerve among the gold bugs. Sorry; but some people think gold is just a metal. Why not back a currency with tin or lead? I know! Cattle would be the best commodity. No? How about gasoline? According to this ... http://www.nma.org/pdf/gold/his_gold_prices.pdf http://www.nma.org/pdf/gold/his_gold_prices.pdf Gold was not $35, it was $26 ounce at the time. After a recent run up no less. Where did you get your info, some Rand Paul/Zero Hedge site? FDR did this to expand the money supply. The U.S. was suffering from deflation. Do any countries actually back their currency with gold? Any modern country ? Not "stores a bunch" but actively exchanges currency for gold on a consumer level?
    - hga 11y ago
      I referred to gold in the 1933 Executive Order because world trade was then, and until Nixon closed the gold window in 1971, a world standard for trade. Hence FDR's action having measurable effects of all sorts (and I'll add that the major virtue of something like a gold standard is that it makes it obvious when the government decides to start cheating the people). As for where I got my specific figures, the notorious "Rand Paul/Zero Hedge" site known as Wikipedia, a link to which I included, specifically https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_6102 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_6102 for prices (and this matches my memory from other, independent sources, including the history that got brought up when Ford signed a bill in 1974 allowing us to again own gold): Executive Order 6102 required all persons to deliver on or before May 1, 1933, all but a small amount of gold coin, gold bullion, and gold certificates owned by them to the Federal Reserve, in exchange for $20.67 (equivalent to $376.58 today[4]) per troy ounce.... [ Exemptions. ] The price of gold from the Treasury for international transactions was thereafter raised to $35 an ounce ($587 in 2010 dollars). The resulting profit that the government realized funded the Exchange Stabilization Fund established by the Gold Reserve Act in 1934. Click through the latter link for the value I then plugged into http://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm http://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm to get 2015 dollars.