15 ms·

I think he's dead on about the relative proportion of violence/murder versus rape in popular media, particularly the US. Part of it might be the puritanical hi

I think he's dead on about the relative proportion of violence/murder versus rape in popular media, particularly the US. Part of it might be the puritanical history of the US. Why is it more acceptable (gauged by PG-13 rating systems) to show killing and violence than even show a breast or two people making love? You'd almost think the latter was a crime instead of the former. The general squeamishness of media on these issues completely distorts the real-world statistics of murder versus domestic violence and rape. So calling Moore out on it is more a statement of current US norms and is very different than other cultures like Japan.

greggman 11y ago
This is just an idea but, does depiction of sex lead to horny people who end up accidentally making babies which leads to abortions or often unwanted kids which often leads to dropping out of school and poverty? On other hand depiction of murder and other violence appears to lead to nothing. In fact as is often pointed out even though apparently media is more violent than ever violent crime rates are down. I don't know. I know I've seen articles about studies that claim violent movies make people more violent in the short term, and I've also seen studies that show the crime rates are down while apparently violent entertainment is up. I have no idea if similar studies have been done for sexualized entertainment, influence on sexual behavior and unintended consequences. Maybe you could look at various cultures, the amount of easily accessible sexualized entertainment, and sex related consequences those cultures have. I suspect it might be similar to violence where countries with more accessible sexual entertainment have less sexual consequences? But of course those same countries also have many other cultural differences as well.
kryptiskt 11y ago
I don't know why you contrast violence and rape, as rape implies violence. And the squemishness about rape doesn't have to say anything about the viewers attitude to sex on the screen. I don't mind movie sex at all, and I abhor 99% of all movie rape or threat thereof. It seems like it's the singular way that hack writers know how to put women in peril, and it's nearly always played for cheap drama and thrills. As for why violence goes down easier. The violence that is done in blockbuster movies has little to do with real violence, it is extremely stylized, it is about as far from reality as romantic movie sex is from real sex. And it is even more so in superhero movies.
- snarfy 11y ago
  > I don't know why you contrast violence and rape, as rape implies violence. No, it does not. There are many instances of rape without violence e.g. adult with an unwilling minor coerced into having sex.
  - jipumarino 11y ago
    Do you really not consider that an act of violence?
    - SCHiM 11y ago
      I'd consider that a violent act, but it is very different form the kind of violence displayed on your tv screen, which is the original point.
topoligel 11y ago
Rape is very different from showing a breast or two, or two people making love. There are many illustrations of murder which include the psychological impact on the victims. I really haven't found any material that empathizes with me, as a rape victim. Instead, every rape and sexual assault scene in Hollywood is 1-5 minutes long and triggers me into wanting to cry and rock back and forth. I haven't seen any of his work regarding sexual violence, but there is a lot more depth to it than just the illustration of it. People who write about it who have never experienced it nor researched it sufficiently will not portray rape in a way that demonstrates the impact it has on the victim. It is often exaggerated and minimized as 'part of the life' of the character that endures it. The reality is that it is like your life was made of glass and rape is the bullet that was shot through it, creating cracks that continue to crack in everything that is connected to it, and sometimes the whole thing shatters and you can't ever imagine how to go back to the person you were before you were raped. You don't know how to put the pieces back together and neither does anyone else. But yet you are expected to keep on going. Happiness without sadness is a thing you don't understand, and you acknowledge that you may never understand. Fear is your best friend and your worst enemy. You might become repulsed by your own body. Your identity may fracture and your sense of reasoning and rationality may twist and warp. Labels follow you everywhere. It is a violation of life.
- DenisM 11y ago
  That sounds awful. How long has it been? Does it get any better over time?
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
  - topoligel 11y ago
    It's been 10 years. I have objectively gotten better, I take better care of myself. Even when I feel like I can not go on, I still get out of bed and I do my daily routine, whether it is going to work or going to the gym and doing my chores. I've hidden in the bathroom at work to cry, and I've had many nights where I've gone to sleep wishing I would not wake up in the morning. I have had some wonderful conversations with people online, and that gives me hope that I will be able to feel happy and be able to recognize it when I feel it. I make art, I make music, and I take great care in learning about computer science and code, and making improvements in it. I have an interest in philosophy and a love of knowledge in general, and I often think it is amusing to me that I use abstract maths to distract myself from traumatic memories, a bit of a quirk that I like about myself. I have my moments where I feel like I think I might love myself and I know who I am, few and far apart they may sometimes be. The last 5 or 6 years have been like a hurricane for me. I still struggle with a lot of things, but I think it has gotten better.
calibraxis 11y ago
Japan has a well-known rape culture. And we're talking about Comic Book Guys getting off on highly triggering violence against women, to the extent of using them as punchlines. Take Grant Morrison's observation: "But I don't know. There's been lots of things, the sexism in DC because it's mostly men who work in these places. Nobody should be trying to say we're taking up a specifically anti-woman stance. I think it would be ignorance or stupidity or some God knows what. I was reading some Alan Moore Marvelman for some reason today. I found one in the back there and I couldn't believe. I pick it up and there are fucking two rapes in it and I suddenly think how many times has somebody been raped in an Alan Moore story? And I couldn't find a single one where someone wasn't raped except for Tom Strong, which I believe was a pastiche. We know Alan Moore isn't a misogynist but fuck, he's obsessed with rape. I managed to do thirty years in comics without any rape!" (http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/grant-morrison-on-the-death-of-comics-20110822 http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/grant-morrison-on-the...)
anon012012 11y ago
The murdered are gone, and the raped are at the theaters, watching it, and experiencing it again. This is cruelty in the name of entertainment. He's right there's value in making the issue visible. But if he was really concerned, he'd think about it deeper, and maybe ask the opinion of related associations, weigh the pros and the cons of inflicting psychological harm. No, I think it's just that he likes the beauty of evil. It's just a tool in his box to make mature art for mature people who are beyond superheroes, and beyond good and evil. But he's an artist, and I don't blame him. (I blame Obama)
- yomism 11y ago
  The sons of murdered also go to cinemas...

greggman 11y ago

This is just an idea but, does depiction of sex lead to horny people who end up accidentally making babies which leads to abortions or often unwanted kids which often leads to dropping out of school and poverty? On other hand depiction of murder and other violence appears to lead to nothing. In fact as is often pointed out even though apparently media is more violent than ever violent crime rates are down. I don't know. I know I've seen articles about studies that claim violent movies make people more violent in the short term, and I've also seen studies that show the crime rates are down while apparently violent entertainment is up. I have no idea if similar studies have been done for sexualized entertainment, influence on sexual behavior and unintended consequences. Maybe you could look at various cultures, the amount of easily accessible sexualized entertainment, and sex related consequences those cultures have. I suspect it might be similar to violence where countries with more accessible sexual entertainment have less sexual consequences? But of course those same countries also have many other cultural differences as well.

kryptiskt 11y ago

I don't know why you contrast violence and rape, as rape implies violence. And the squemishness about rape doesn't have to say anything about the viewers attitude to sex on the screen. I don't mind movie sex at all, and I abhor 99% of all movie rape or threat thereof. It seems like it's the singular way that hack writers know how to put women in peril, and it's nearly always played for cheap drama and thrills. As for why violence goes down easier. The violence that is done in blockbuster movies has little to do with real violence, it is extremely stylized, it is about as far from reality as romantic movie sex is from real sex. And it is even more so in superhero movies.

snarfy 11y ago
> I don't know why you contrast violence and rape, as rape implies violence. No, it does not. There are many instances of rape without violence e.g. adult with an unwilling minor coerced into having sex.
- jipumarino 11y ago
  Do you really not consider that an act of violence?
  - SCHiM 11y ago
    I'd consider that a violent act, but it is very different form the kind of violence displayed on your tv screen, which is the original point.

topoligel 11y ago

Rape is very different from showing a breast or two, or two people making love. There are many illustrations of murder which include the psychological impact on the victims. I really haven't found any material that empathizes with me, as a rape victim. Instead, every rape and sexual assault scene in Hollywood is 1-5 minutes long and triggers me into wanting to cry and rock back and forth. I haven't seen any of his work regarding sexual violence, but there is a lot more depth to it than just the illustration of it. People who write about it who have never experienced it nor researched it sufficiently will not portray rape in a way that demonstrates the impact it has on the victim. It is often exaggerated and minimized as 'part of the life' of the character that endures it. The reality is that it is like your life was made of glass and rape is the bullet that was shot through it, creating cracks that continue to crack in everything that is connected to it, and sometimes the whole thing shatters and you can't ever imagine how to go back to the person you were before you were raped. You don't know how to put the pieces back together and neither does anyone else. But yet you are expected to keep on going. Happiness without sadness is a thing you don't understand, and you acknowledge that you may never understand. Fear is your best friend and your worst enemy. You might become repulsed by your own body. Your identity may fracture and your sense of reasoning and rationality may twist and warp. Labels follow you everywhere. It is a violation of life.

DenisM 11y ago
That sounds awful. How long has it been? Does it get any better over time?
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- topoligel 11y ago
  It's been 10 years. I have objectively gotten better, I take better care of myself. Even when I feel like I can not go on, I still get out of bed and I do my daily routine, whether it is going to work or going to the gym and doing my chores. I've hidden in the bathroom at work to cry, and I've had many nights where I've gone to sleep wishing I would not wake up in the morning. I have had some wonderful conversations with people online, and that gives me hope that I will be able to feel happy and be able to recognize it when I feel it. I make art, I make music, and I take great care in learning about computer science and code, and making improvements in it. I have an interest in philosophy and a love of knowledge in general, and I often think it is amusing to me that I use abstract maths to distract myself from traumatic memories, a bit of a quirk that I like about myself. I have my moments where I feel like I think I might love myself and I know who I am, few and far apart they may sometimes be. The last 5 or 6 years have been like a hurricane for me. I still struggle with a lot of things, but I think it has gotten better.

calibraxis 11y ago

Japan has a well-known rape culture. And we're talking about Comic Book Guys getting off on highly triggering violence against women, to the extent of using them as punchlines. Take Grant Morrison's observation: "But I don't know. There's been lots of things, the sexism in DC because it's mostly men who work in these places. Nobody should be trying to say we're taking up a specifically anti-woman stance. I think it would be ignorance or stupidity or some God knows what. I was reading some Alan Moore Marvelman for some reason today. I found one in the back there and I couldn't believe. I pick it up and there are fucking two rapes in it and I suddenly think how many times has somebody been raped in an Alan Moore story? And I couldn't find a single one where someone wasn't raped except for Tom Strong, which I believe was a pastiche. We know Alan Moore isn't a misogynist but fuck, he's obsessed with rape. I managed to do thirty years in comics without any rape!" (http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/grant-morrison-on-the-death-of-comics-20110822 http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/grant-morrison-on-the...)

anon012012 11y ago

The murdered are gone, and the raped are at the theaters, watching it, and experiencing it again. This is cruelty in the name of entertainment. He's right there's value in making the issue visible. But if he was really concerned, he'd think about it deeper, and maybe ask the opinion of related associations, weigh the pros and the cons of inflicting psychological harm. No, I think it's just that he likes the beauty of evil. It's just a tool in his box to make mature art for mature people who are beyond superheroes, and beyond good and evil. But he's an artist, and I don't blame him. (I blame Obama)

yomism 11y ago
The sons of murdered also go to cinemas...