5 ms·

We've heard one side of the story -- from someone who tells stories for a living. He may have been arrested, and he may have been beaten, but I'd wait to hear m

We've heard one side of the story -- from someone who tells stories for a living. He may have been arrested, and he may have been beaten, but I'd wait to hear more about why.

grandalf 17y ago
My guess would be that he politely mouthed off to the guards a bit. Technical people are at risk for harassment because we assume that the process is about something other than the guard not taking a personal dislike to you.
- houseabsolute 17y ago
  My guess was that he raised his voice or otherwise displayed ire. Undoubtedly he did something a wise person in his shoes would not have done. But he probably didn't deserve a beating (although we lack any evidence that that actually happened).
  - pyre 17y ago
    All US-Canada border crossings are mired in video cameras. (If they say the none of them are actually recording then I'll call 'cover-up.')
adammichaelc 17y ago
My guess is that he was being defiant -- yelling at them in a tone similar to his blog post on the matter.http://www.rifters.com/crawl/?p=932 http://www.rifters.com/crawl/?p=932 Beyond yelling, I'd be very surprised if 1 law-abiding author without a criminal history would try to physically confront a group of armed guards. So is standing up and yelling at an officer enough to justify getting beat up, thrown in jail, & charged with assaulting an officer?
- tptacek 17y ago
  Refusing to stay in your car when a cop demands that you do so seems like a good way to get thrown to the ground, and once the police start using physical force to restrain you, they get harsh pretty quickly: they gang up, they jam their knees into you, and they slam your face into the pavement. All of this qualifies as taking a beatdown. I wouldn't be surprised to find out their General Orders demand decisive force once a situation escalates; if you've confronted the wrong kind of guy, doing things that just piss them off (like getting grabby and trying to guide them back into the car) could be dangerous.
  - forensic 17y ago
    >I wouldn't be surprised to find out their General Orders demand decisive force once a situation escalates They demand compliance. If the officer does not have compliance he is legally required to gain it by escalating up the force scale. According to the police manuals, in the event of non-violent non-compliance, non-lethal force should be used such as pepper-spray or taser until compliance is gained. The charge of assaulting an officer probably came into effect after the writer was pepper-sprayed. The police probably tried to subdue him and he struggled - struggling often counts as assaulting an officer. And people who are getting tasered and pepper-sprayed often struggle out of instinct.
    - mcantelon 17y ago
      According to a ex-cop relative of mine, when police assault people they fairly routinely charge those they've assaulted because it covers their asses if the person files a complaint or wants to sue. If it goes to court the word of the police generally has more weight than a the average person's.
      - jacquesm 17y ago
        I think you've just given me excellent reason to believe that you're already living in a police state. If that sort of thing is 'routine' you've got a real problem.
        17y ago
hyperbovine 17y ago
Having just been given the third degree by both U.S. and Canadian border patrol last weekend, I can attest that it can be a really infuriating process. To be blunt, they can (and generally are) huge assholes, really getting in your face and making you feel like a criminal even when you have nothing to hide. I presume the goal of this is to psych out the people who actually are up to no good, but the end result is that you end up feeling pissed off and unwelcome. That said, I definitely agree that there is another side to this story. For one thing, everything that happens at a border crossing is videotaped from about 14 different camera angles, so there's no way they're going charge him with assault unless he actually took a swing. The fact that the situation even got to that point--multiple guards, pepper spray, verbal commands--means he did something pretty egregious. The crossing guards are dicks but they are professional dicks, at least in my experience. Do as you're told and you'll eventually get through. Ignore repeated commands and project the same surliness back at them and you're just asking for trouble.
- ghshephard 17y ago
  Well put - to put it simply - Don't act like you have any rights whatsoever when crossing a border - the instant you think you don't have to answer every question, be prepared for an instant search, or otherwise, be completely docile - well, that's the start of a fairly ugly downhill journey, as Mr. Peter Watts has just discovered. As a frequent border crosser though, I'll note that I have _never_ witnessed, nor been exposed, to anything other than thoroughly professional (if sometimes highly antagonistic and hostile) behavior on the part of Immigration. These guys _really_ know what they are doing - and the "psych out" is intentional - nothing personal. Though, I'll admit, traveling back to Canada for a visit (I work in Silicon Valley) and explaining what I (a Canadian Citizen) will be doing there, and why, and where - does get a little old after 10+ years of doing so. At least I know what to expect.
  - Confusion 17y ago
    Don't act like you have any rights whatsoever when crossing a border When crossing an American border. Or do you believe this can happen when you drive into Norway, Switzerland, Croatia or even Turkey?
e40 17y ago
I think if he did actually assault a border guard, he would never have been let go (edit: so quickly). The surface facts that we know and can believe (detained and released) smack of punishment for some small slight. His punishment (beating, citing for a felony a being immediately released) is completely consistent with many other cases of people saying the wrong thing. Make no mistake, when you really do cross the actual line with a cop/border guard, you will pay with all the force of the law (and then some).
- billswift 17y ago
  It was pretty obvious that "contempt of cop" was his real "crime".

We've heard one side of the story -- from someone who tells stories for a living. He may have been arrested, and he may have been beaten, but I'd wait to hear more about why.

grandalf 17y ago

My guess would be that he politely mouthed off to the guards a bit. Technical people are at risk for harassment because we assume that the process is about something other than the guard not taking a personal dislike to you.

houseabsolute 17y ago
My guess was that he raised his voice or otherwise displayed ire. Undoubtedly he did something a wise person in his shoes would not have done. But he probably didn't deserve a beating (although we lack any evidence that that actually happened).
- pyre 17y ago
  All US-Canada border crossings are mired in video cameras. (If they say the none of them are actually recording then I'll call 'cover-up.')

adammichaelc 17y ago

My guess is that he was being defiant -- yelling at them in a tone similar to his blog post on the matter.http://www.rifters.com/crawl/?p=932 http://www.rifters.com/crawl/?p=932 Beyond yelling, I'd be very surprised if 1 law-abiding author without a criminal history would try to physically confront a group of armed guards. So is standing up and yelling at an officer enough to justify getting beat up, thrown in jail, & charged with assaulting an officer?

tptacek 17y ago
Refusing to stay in your car when a cop demands that you do so seems like a good way to get thrown to the ground, and once the police start using physical force to restrain you, they get harsh pretty quickly: they gang up, they jam their knees into you, and they slam your face into the pavement. All of this qualifies as taking a beatdown. I wouldn't be surprised to find out their General Orders demand decisive force once a situation escalates; if you've confronted the wrong kind of guy, doing things that just piss them off (like getting grabby and trying to guide them back into the car) could be dangerous.
- forensic 17y ago
  >I wouldn't be surprised to find out their General Orders demand decisive force once a situation escalates They demand compliance. If the officer does not have compliance he is legally required to gain it by escalating up the force scale. According to the police manuals, in the event of non-violent non-compliance, non-lethal force should be used such as pepper-spray or taser until compliance is gained. The charge of assaulting an officer probably came into effect after the writer was pepper-sprayed. The police probably tried to subdue him and he struggled - struggling often counts as assaulting an officer. And people who are getting tasered and pepper-sprayed often struggle out of instinct.
  - mcantelon 17y ago
    According to a ex-cop relative of mine, when police assault people they fairly routinely charge those they've assaulted because it covers their asses if the person files a complaint or wants to sue. If it goes to court the word of the police generally has more weight than a the average person's.
    - jacquesm 17y ago
      I think you've just given me excellent reason to believe that you're already living in a police state. If that sort of thing is 'routine' you've got a real problem.
      - 17y ago

hyperbovine 17y ago

Having just been given the third degree by both U.S. and Canadian border patrol last weekend, I can attest that it can be a really infuriating process. To be blunt, they can (and generally are) huge assholes, really getting in your face and making you feel like a criminal even when you have nothing to hide. I presume the goal of this is to psych out the people who actually are up to no good, but the end result is that you end up feeling pissed off and unwelcome. That said, I definitely agree that there is another side to this story. For one thing, everything that happens at a border crossing is videotaped from about 14 different camera angles, so there's no way they're going charge him with assault unless he actually took a swing. The fact that the situation even got to that point--multiple guards, pepper spray, verbal commands--means he did something pretty egregious. The crossing guards are dicks but they are professional dicks, at least in my experience. Do as you're told and you'll eventually get through. Ignore repeated commands and project the same surliness back at them and you're just asking for trouble.

ghshephard 17y ago
Well put - to put it simply - Don't act like you have any rights whatsoever when crossing a border - the instant you think you don't have to answer every question, be prepared for an instant search, or otherwise, be completely docile - well, that's the start of a fairly ugly downhill journey, as Mr. Peter Watts has just discovered. As a frequent border crosser though, I'll note that I have _never_ witnessed, nor been exposed, to anything other than thoroughly professional (if sometimes highly antagonistic and hostile) behavior on the part of Immigration. These guys _really_ know what they are doing - and the "psych out" is intentional - nothing personal. Though, I'll admit, traveling back to Canada for a visit (I work in Silicon Valley) and explaining what I (a Canadian Citizen) will be doing there, and why, and where - does get a little old after 10+ years of doing so. At least I know what to expect.
- Confusion 17y ago
  Don't act like you have any rights whatsoever when crossing a border When crossing an American border. Or do you believe this can happen when you drive into Norway, Switzerland, Croatia or even Turkey?

e40 17y ago

I think if he did actually assault a border guard, he would never have been let go (edit: so quickly). The surface facts that we know and can believe (detained and released) smack of punishment for some small slight. His punishment (beating, citing for a felony a being immediately released) is completely consistent with many other cases of people saying the wrong thing. Make no mistake, when you really do cross the actual line with a cop/border guard, you will pay with all the force of the law (and then some).

billswift 17y ago
It was pretty obvious that "contempt of cop" was his real "crime".