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Sci-fi author and Crysis 2 writer Peter Watts beaten, arrested at US border

122 points by arundelo 17y ago

byrneseyeview 17y ago
We've heard one side of the story -- from someone who tells stories for a living. He may have been arrested, and he may have been beaten, but I'd wait to hear more about why.
- grandalf 17y ago
  My guess would be that he politely mouthed off to the guards a bit. Technical people are at risk for harassment because we assume that the process is about something other than the guard not taking a personal dislike to you.
  - houseabsolute 17y ago
    My guess was that he raised his voice or otherwise displayed ire. Undoubtedly he did something a wise person in his shoes would not have done. But he probably didn't deserve a beating (although we lack any evidence that that actually happened).
    - pyre 17y ago
      All US-Canada border crossings are mired in video cameras. (If they say the none of them are actually recording then I'll call 'cover-up.')
- adammichaelc 17y ago
  My guess is that he was being defiant -- yelling at them in a tone similar to his blog post on the matter.http://www.rifters.com/crawl/?p=932 http://www.rifters.com/crawl/?p=932 Beyond yelling, I'd be very surprised if 1 law-abiding author without a criminal history would try to physically confront a group of armed guards. So is standing up and yelling at an officer enough to justify getting beat up, thrown in jail, & charged with assaulting an officer?
  - tptacek 17y ago
    Refusing to stay in your car when a cop demands that you do so seems like a good way to get thrown to the ground, and once the police start using physical force to restrain you, they get harsh pretty quickly: they gang up, they jam their knees into you, and they slam your face into the pavement. All of this qualifies as taking a beatdown. I wouldn't be surprised to find out their General Orders demand decisive force once a situation escalates; if you've confronted the wrong kind of guy, doing things that just piss them off (like getting grabby and trying to guide them back into the car) could be dangerous.
    - forensic 17y ago
      >I wouldn't be surprised to find out their General Orders demand decisive force once a situation escalates They demand compliance. If the officer does not have compliance he is legally required to gain it by escalating up the force scale. According to the police manuals, in the event of non-violent non-compliance, non-lethal force should be used such as pepper-spray or taser until compliance is gained. The charge of assaulting an officer probably came into effect after the writer was pepper-sprayed. The police probably tried to subdue him and he struggled - struggling often counts as assaulting an officer. And people who are getting tasered and pepper-sprayed often struggle out of instinct.
      - mcantelon 17y ago
        According to a ex-cop relative of mine, when police assault people they fairly routinely charge those they've assaulted because it covers their asses if the person files a complaint or wants to sue. If it goes to court the word of the police generally has more weight than a the average person's.
        jacquesm 17y ago
        I think you've just given me excellent reason to believe that you're already living in a police state. If that sort of thing is 'routine' you've got a real problem.
- hyperbovine 17y ago
  Having just been given the third degree by both U.S. and Canadian border patrol last weekend, I can attest that it can be a really infuriating process. To be blunt, they can (and generally are) huge assholes, really getting in your face and making you feel like a criminal even when you have nothing to hide. I presume the goal of this is to psych out the people who actually are up to no good, but the end result is that you end up feeling pissed off and unwelcome. That said, I definitely agree that there is another side to this story. For one thing, everything that happens at a border crossing is videotaped from about 14 different camera angles, so there's no way they're going charge him with assault unless he actually took a swing. The fact that the situation even got to that point--multiple guards, pepper spray, verbal commands--means he did something pretty egregious. The crossing guards are dicks but they are professional dicks, at least in my experience. Do as you're told and you'll eventually get through. Ignore repeated commands and project the same surliness back at them and you're just asking for trouble.
  - ghshephard 17y ago
    Well put - to put it simply - Don't act like you have any rights whatsoever when crossing a border - the instant you think you don't have to answer every question, be prepared for an instant search, or otherwise, be completely docile - well, that's the start of a fairly ugly downhill journey, as Mr. Peter Watts has just discovered. As a frequent border crosser though, I'll note that I have _never_ witnessed, nor been exposed, to anything other than thoroughly professional (if sometimes highly antagonistic and hostile) behavior on the part of Immigration. These guys _really_ know what they are doing - and the "psych out" is intentional - nothing personal. Though, I'll admit, traveling back to Canada for a visit (I work in Silicon Valley) and explaining what I (a Canadian Citizen) will be doing there, and why, and where - does get a little old after 10+ years of doing so. At least I know what to expect.
    - Confusion 17y ago
      Don't act like you have any rights whatsoever when crossing a border When crossing an American border. Or do you believe this can happen when you drive into Norway, Switzerland, Croatia or even Turkey?
- e40 17y ago
  I think if he did actually assault a border guard, he would never have been let go (edit: so quickly). The surface facts that we know and can believe (detained and released) smack of punishment for some small slight. His punishment (beating, citing for a felony a being immediately released) is completely consistent with many other cases of people saying the wrong thing. Make no mistake, when you really do cross the actual line with a cop/border guard, you will pay with all the force of the law (and then some).
  - billswift 17y ago
    It was pretty obvious that "contempt of cop" was his real "crime".
grandalf 17y ago
I recommend that everyone donate a few dollars via PayPal to Peter's legal defense fund: donate@rifters.com
- mattmaroon 17y ago
  I'd like to donate to the border guards. I figure there's a 50/50 chance there's a lot more to this story than Cory Doctorow's (his friend) has told, but nobody else will blindly take their side.
  - noarchy 17y ago
    Haven't had to cross the border much, aye?
    - mattmaroon 17y ago
      I've crossed the Canadian border maybe 50 times with never a problem (and often a couple boxes of Cuban cigars in my wheel well).
      - grandalf 17y ago
        So have I incidentally, but that didn't stop the Canadian guards from mistreating me on one unfortunate occasion. There are a variety of issues here, but I think the core issue is that people should be very concerned when law-abiding, harmless citizens are exposed to unnecessary coercion based on the whims of border clerks.
        mattmaroon 17y ago
        I'm curious, what happened? I was once caught with Cubans. They broke them and sent me on my way.
        grandalf 17y ago
        I was in college (U of M) and going to windsor with a friend the night before spring break to visit the casino (a bit of a novelty at the time and more fun than Ann Arbor when most of the campus was vacant). He had loaded his car (he had his video game system and guitar in the back, ready to drive home to Ohio the next day)... Just as we were pulling up to the checkpoint, I got a call from someone I hadn't heard from in a long time. In about 5-10 seconds I said, "Great to hear from you let me call you back in a few minutes". That overlapped by about 3 seconds with the guard's question "What's your citizenship". I said "US Citizen". The guard said, "Why are you on teh phone when I'm talking to you?" I said, "I'm sorry about being on the phone, I just got a call from someone I hadn't heard from in a long time and wanted to answer and say I'd call back". The guard reached over and stuck something under the wiper and directed us to drive into the search bay. Then, two surly men in uniform walked up and started hyper-aggressively asking questions. I explained that I thought I'd offended the previous guard b/c I'd been on the phone, and that we were just going for a routine visit to the casino. The guards then ordered us to get out of the car and began searching the car. They found my friend's video game system and guitar and acted as if this was highly suspicious. We explained that it was the night before spring break and that he had those things ready to bring home with him the next day and that they would be coming back to the US with us later. The guards proceeded to ask a lot more questions with voices raised, etc. Then they informed us that were were going to have to go back to the US. I said, "That's bullshit" in a firm voice. One of the guards came quickly toward me, so I jumped back into the car and locked the door. He roiled for a few seconds and then said, "I'm not going to hit you". I then waited for a moment until he backed away and got back out of the car and said, "Ok, you are making a mistake, we are harmless" etc. We then returned to the US and looped back around to re-attempt crossing, but the license plate had been flagged and we were ordered to leave again without being searched. The next day I called the Canadian border control office and explained to the supervisor what had happened. He said something along the lines of "How do I know you're telling the truth?" and hung up. He obviously didn't care. The next time I went to Canada I asked a few people who worked in tourism related shops just inside the Canadian border if my experience was typical. They told me that the job of border guard appeals to the sort of people who enjoy getting into fights, etc. and that they take the job to "blow off steam". If the supervisor had expressed the slightest concern, etc., I'd attribute it to a random bit of bad luck or misunderstanding, but I think the reality is that excesses/abuses happen all the time. I was ultimately only verbally abused, harassed, and turned away... fortunately the guard who came at me was prevented from acting on his impulse to get physical by my retreat into the car.
tptacek 17y ago
I think a lot of people don't realize that they have drastically reduced rights at or near border crossings. You and your car can be searched by customs at their discretion without warrant or probable cause. The "in some other universe... I didn't get back in my vehicle when I was told to" quote is telling too. I think someone more familiar with how border crossings work would never refuse to physically comply with a demand from officials.
- Afton 17y ago
  The storytelling here is a little confusing, but isn't he saying that in this universe, he did get back in his vehicle when told? Not discussing whether he deserved a beating or not, just trying to get his story straight.
  - tptacek 17y ago
    I got the opposite impression, but it was a bit hard to follow.
- potatolicious 17y ago
  > The "in some other universe... I didn't get back in my vehicle when I was told to" quote is telling too. I agree. I do not know this man - but from my frequent Canada <-> USA border crossings I do know that while border guard power trips are frequent (too often so), getting beat takes effort. The story is clearly not as clear-cut as a bunch of crooked border cops deciding randomly to pepper spray and beat some guy. His friends and family are free to contribute to his legal defence, but without knowing what really happened I am unwilling to contribute. That being said, the amount of unprofessional power tripping at American borders is ludicrous - myself and other Canadians avoid cross-border travel for this very reason, and it's costing America business. Even my American coworkers get hassled on their way home from Canada, and nearly everyone agrees that Canadian guards are on the whole a hell of a lot more professional and polite. Nothing tops the time I was at the airport in Vancouver, pre-clearing customs. A very large border guard with a pissed off sneer on his face was hassling everyone he dealt with, and verbally berated an elderly gentleman for moving too slowly as he shuffled his way up to the booth. That sort of bullshit cannot be tolerated, and gives America a bad name for no good reason.
akkartik 17y ago
Blindsight (his book) is awesome.
cgranade 17y ago
FYI: Updates from Watts' blog are online at http://www.rifters.com/crawl/?p=935 http://www.rifters.com/crawl/?p=935.
- mkyc 17y ago
  Awesome, some real information, rather than pointless and obvious speculation as to what happened. He links a news story: http://www.thetimesherald.com/article/20091211/NEWS01/91211010/1002/Science+fiction+writer+charged+after+bridge+struggle http://www.thetimesherald.com/article/20091211/NEWS01/912110...
  - cgranade 17y ago
    Sadly, I think we won't get too much more info for a while, since Watts is not in a place to say much right now, and I don't think that the border guards will have much to say...
tc 17y ago
The bottom-line problem seems to be that law-abiding people don't have much experience with being treated like criminals. In a high-pressure situation they sometimes fall back on their quaint expectations of rights and basic human respect. I would wager that someone who had spent serious time in prison would do much better in these situations. The guy probably had a long day. I bet he just wanted nothing more than to get home and go to sleep. He obviously didn't understand what all the fuss was about, and he ended up stepping on someone's hair trigger. It seems terribly unlikely he did something that you or I would consider physically threatening. After being pepper-sprayed and man-handled, and likely not in the soundest state of mind, maybe he even flailed a bit -- guaranteeing an assault charge (and possible conviction). Perhaps that's how it went down. It'll probably turn out that the border guards "followed procedure." But that's exactly the problem that makes the story frightening to us: The path from "long day + non-violent temporary failure of judgement" to "being physically assaulted and facing a life-altering felony charge" seems terribly short.
- deleted 17y ago
  [deleted]
- drinian 17y ago
  quaint expectations of rights and basic human respect. I would wager that someone who had spent serious time in prison would do much better in these situations. This is America. We shouldn't be expected to act like guilty slaves when interacting with law enforcement. Your attitude isn't constructive at all.
  - tc 17y ago
    Oh dear. I had hoped that the satire of the first two grafs was self-evident [1]. Helpfully, wiktionary includes for quaint the definition: "quaint, adj., 3. Highly incongruous, inappropriate, or illogical; naive, unreasonable -- usually used ironically." Edit: While sarcasm in writing is a generally bad idea, the tradition of thoughtfully written irony and satire goes back a ways (c.f. A Modest Proposal). It of course does require the reader to reflect intelligently while reading, but that is what we expect in this forum. Since my final three grafs made my position pretty clear, I was rather unsure until your response below whether you were intentionally trolling. [1] My statements are likely true, paradoxically, but we react strongly to the fact that they shouldn't be.
jsz0 17y ago
From the border agent's perspective anyone can be a threat. You should approach these situations avoiding any actions that may confuse you with a lunatic or criminal. Not sure if that was the case here or not. Hopefully it was on camera so we can know the true story.
- grandalf 17y ago
  So the correct response is to supplicate before the guard, avoiding any visible signs of irritation, hurry, etc. It is generally preferable to put on the most benign facial expression one can muster to avoid threatening or annoying the guard, who has the power to waste several hours of your life on a whim, and can cause far more harm if he chooses.
- jacquesm 17y ago
  > From the border agent's perspective anyone can be a threat. Yes, but in practice only in their minds. Seriously, if you stop someone going out of the country they most likely are not a threat to you.
nazgulnarsil 17y ago
when stopped by a police officer I always act like they already have a gun pointed at me. I keep my hands visible and answer everything with a 'sir'. maybe there's lots of good cops out there. But if I get the one asshole who gets off on power I'd rather appease his view of the world than challenge it.
cstross 17y ago
I know Peter. He's not the guy most likely to blow up and punch someone. About the only point of information that might serve to remotely spin this in the border guards' favour is that Peter is just shy of seven feet tall: if you're of average height, he looms. I gather the assault indictment stated that he was trying to enter the United States when the incident took place. As he was in fact leaving one wonders what other lies the border patrol are telling?
DanielBMarkham 17y ago
This article sets off my bullshit detector, and let me explain why. First, it's throwing red meat to the dogs. The internet and tech community is extremely sci-fi and video game friendly. This was one of us, and bad things happened to him. Second, it's not a news article. There's no presumption of being two sides to the story. One side is given, by a friend, and a call to action given out. Were the officers interviewed? Was the video-tape released (And you know they have video tape)? Nothing of the barest minimum was done to provide some sort of context. The purpose of this piece is clear: it's a call to action, an editorial, an opinion piece. Don't confuse it with a news article. Third, there's lots of loaded language in here -- "was subject to a beating and arrest", and "the gang of border guards", "and losing it may cost him his entire life" etc. Look -- I'm not taking sides. Border guards screw up and are badly-trained sometimes. That's why we have video on all border crossings. On the other hand, people crossing the border have been known not to be able to handle submitting to requests from people in authority for various reasons. There is a very good case for using physical force on occasion. I simply don't know what happened. What do I do when someone starts singing sweet songs of injustice that sounds wonderful to my libertarian senses? That's when I start asking questions. I would like to know more about this, and from a non-aligned source, before being able to form any kind of opinion at all.
- jacquesm 17y ago
  I completely and fully believe the story. I've crossed the Canadian - US border many times by car and I've personally witnessed more than one occasion of absolutely unwarranted aggression on the part of the border guards. Seriously, you have to make the trip a couple of times per month for a year or two to get any idea of how many rotten apples there are in that basket. American and Canadian visitors are always completely surprised when we tour the region here, and we go from the Netherlands to France, Belgium and Germany without ever seeing a borderguard in person, let alone having to interact with one. It's really just costumed theater, you could easily do without it and it would not somehow threaten the American way of life. American borders being what they are I stopped going there completely after one especially nasty incident in Miami that caused me to miss a connecting flight. Until sanity returns to the American borders I'm sure they can do without my business.
anguslong 17y ago
Without hearing both sides of the story, an instructional video came to mind: Chris Rock's: How not to get your a$$ kicked by police http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uj0mtxXEGE8 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uj0mtxXEGE8 Hope this situation gets worked out amicably though.
tangram 17y ago
If he was going back to Canada he was not passing through US customs, you just go through and stop at Canadian customs. He was pulled over by the US border police so this could not have been a customs matter. Unless they had tip that he was doing something illegal or he broke a law like speeding, I don't know why they would have pulled him over. Also I have crossed the border plenty of times, what I have issues with is that customs officials are given too much discretion it seems in what they can do. If an officer has a bad day they can pretty much do what they wanted. The worst I saw was when my brother was renewing his TN1 visa. I was driving him to the airport in Buffalo. We waited for close to two hours at the customs office. The whole time the customs officers were just talking about their weekend, what their plans were, on one was actually doing their job. Two girls that were there before us finally asked, and they were were courteous while do so, when their case would be handled. They said they had waited for 3 hours and were on their way to a funeral. The customs officer blew up at them right away, told them to shut up, used allot of swear words directed at them and threatened to throw them in jail. Nothing the girls did warranted that behavior. After his tirade he had everyone that was waiting come over and denied them entry right on the spot without hearing them out. The whole time all the other officers were just laughing. Usually everyone has always been professional when I crossed the border and that was the only time I have seen someone on a power trip. But it does happen, and when it happens you are pretty much screwed if you are caught in the cross fire.
- berntb 17y ago
  Lifecasting should change rude behavior like this in our lifetimes. Just consider, if there is 5-10% risk of someone being an a..hole/criminal almost directly ends up at Youtube, media or the police. We can look forward to a polite society. (I think this argument was from Steve Mann, but my memory might have bitrot.)
- ajb 17y ago
  It's not that hard to think of reasons why the border guards would pull someone innocent over on the way out. Most obviously, he or his car could fit the description of an all-points alert; at least, enough that they want a closer look.

122 points by arundelo 17y ago

We've heard one side of the story -- from someone who tells stories for a living. He may have been arrested, and he may have been beaten, but I'd wait to hear more about why.

grandalf 17y ago
My guess would be that he politely mouthed off to the guards a bit. Technical people are at risk for harassment because we assume that the process is about something other than the guard not taking a personal dislike to you.
- houseabsolute 17y ago
  My guess was that he raised his voice or otherwise displayed ire. Undoubtedly he did something a wise person in his shoes would not have done. But he probably didn't deserve a beating (although we lack any evidence that that actually happened).
  - pyre 17y ago
    All US-Canada border crossings are mired in video cameras. (If they say the none of them are actually recording then I'll call 'cover-up.')
adammichaelc 17y ago
My guess is that he was being defiant -- yelling at them in a tone similar to his blog post on the matter.http://www.rifters.com/crawl/?p=932 http://www.rifters.com/crawl/?p=932 Beyond yelling, I'd be very surprised if 1 law-abiding author without a criminal history would try to physically confront a group of armed guards. So is standing up and yelling at an officer enough to justify getting beat up, thrown in jail, & charged with assaulting an officer?
- tptacek 17y ago
  Refusing to stay in your car when a cop demands that you do so seems like a good way to get thrown to the ground, and once the police start using physical force to restrain you, they get harsh pretty quickly: they gang up, they jam their knees into you, and they slam your face into the pavement. All of this qualifies as taking a beatdown. I wouldn't be surprised to find out their General Orders demand decisive force once a situation escalates; if you've confronted the wrong kind of guy, doing things that just piss them off (like getting grabby and trying to guide them back into the car) could be dangerous.
  - forensic 17y ago
    >I wouldn't be surprised to find out their General Orders demand decisive force once a situation escalates They demand compliance. If the officer does not have compliance he is legally required to gain it by escalating up the force scale. According to the police manuals, in the event of non-violent non-compliance, non-lethal force should be used such as pepper-spray or taser until compliance is gained. The charge of assaulting an officer probably came into effect after the writer was pepper-sprayed. The police probably tried to subdue him and he struggled - struggling often counts as assaulting an officer. And people who are getting tasered and pepper-sprayed often struggle out of instinct.
    - mcantelon 17y ago
      According to a ex-cop relative of mine, when police assault people they fairly routinely charge those they've assaulted because it covers their asses if the person files a complaint or wants to sue. If it goes to court the word of the police generally has more weight than a the average person's.
      - jacquesm 17y ago
        I think you've just given me excellent reason to believe that you're already living in a police state. If that sort of thing is 'routine' you've got a real problem.
hyperbovine 17y ago
Having just been given the third degree by both U.S. and Canadian border patrol last weekend, I can attest that it can be a really infuriating process. To be blunt, they can (and generally are) huge assholes, really getting in your face and making you feel like a criminal even when you have nothing to hide. I presume the goal of this is to psych out the people who actually are up to no good, but the end result is that you end up feeling pissed off and unwelcome. That said, I definitely agree that there is another side to this story. For one thing, everything that happens at a border crossing is videotaped from about 14 different camera angles, so there's no way they're going charge him with assault unless he actually took a swing. The fact that the situation even got to that point--multiple guards, pepper spray, verbal commands--means he did something pretty egregious. The crossing guards are dicks but they are professional dicks, at least in my experience. Do as you're told and you'll eventually get through. Ignore repeated commands and project the same surliness back at them and you're just asking for trouble.
- ghshephard 17y ago
  Well put - to put it simply - Don't act like you have any rights whatsoever when crossing a border - the instant you think you don't have to answer every question, be prepared for an instant search, or otherwise, be completely docile - well, that's the start of a fairly ugly downhill journey, as Mr. Peter Watts has just discovered. As a frequent border crosser though, I'll note that I have _never_ witnessed, nor been exposed, to anything other than thoroughly professional (if sometimes highly antagonistic and hostile) behavior on the part of Immigration. These guys _really_ know what they are doing - and the "psych out" is intentional - nothing personal. Though, I'll admit, traveling back to Canada for a visit (I work in Silicon Valley) and explaining what I (a Canadian Citizen) will be doing there, and why, and where - does get a little old after 10+ years of doing so. At least I know what to expect.
  - Confusion 17y ago
    Don't act like you have any rights whatsoever when crossing a border When crossing an American border. Or do you believe this can happen when you drive into Norway, Switzerland, Croatia or even Turkey?
e40 17y ago
I think if he did actually assault a border guard, he would never have been let go (edit: so quickly). The surface facts that we know and can believe (detained and released) smack of punishment for some small slight. His punishment (beating, citing for a felony a being immediately released) is completely consistent with many other cases of people saying the wrong thing. Make no mistake, when you really do cross the actual line with a cop/border guard, you will pay with all the force of the law (and then some).
- billswift 17y ago
  It was pretty obvious that "contempt of cop" was his real "crime".

grandalf 17y ago

I recommend that everyone donate a few dollars via PayPal to Peter's legal defense fund: donate@rifters.com

mattmaroon 17y ago
I'd like to donate to the border guards. I figure there's a 50/50 chance there's a lot more to this story than Cory Doctorow's (his friend) has told, but nobody else will blindly take their side.
- noarchy 17y ago
  Haven't had to cross the border much, aye?
  - mattmaroon 17y ago
    I've crossed the Canadian border maybe 50 times with never a problem (and often a couple boxes of Cuban cigars in my wheel well).
    - grandalf 17y ago
      So have I incidentally, but that didn't stop the Canadian guards from mistreating me on one unfortunate occasion. There are a variety of issues here, but I think the core issue is that people should be very concerned when law-abiding, harmless citizens are exposed to unnecessary coercion based on the whims of border clerks.
      - mattmaroon 17y ago
        I'm curious, what happened? I was once caught with Cubans. They broke them and sent me on my way.
        grandalf 17y ago
        I was in college (U of M) and going to windsor with a friend the night before spring break to visit the casino (a bit of a novelty at the time and more fun than Ann Arbor when most of the campus was vacant). He had loaded his car (he had his video game system and guitar in the back, ready to drive home to Ohio the next day)... Just as we were pulling up to the checkpoint, I got a call from someone I hadn't heard from in a long time. In about 5-10 seconds I said, "Great to hear from you let me call you back in a few minutes". That overlapped by about 3 seconds with the guard's question "What's your citizenship". I said "US Citizen". The guard said, "Why are you on teh phone when I'm talking to you?" I said, "I'm sorry about being on the phone, I just got a call from someone I hadn't heard from in a long time and wanted to answer and say I'd call back". The guard reached over and stuck something under the wiper and directed us to drive into the search bay. Then, two surly men in uniform walked up and started hyper-aggressively asking questions. I explained that I thought I'd offended the previous guard b/c I'd been on the phone, and that we were just going for a routine visit to the casino. The guards then ordered us to get out of the car and began searching the car. They found my friend's video game system and guitar and acted as if this was highly suspicious. We explained that it was the night before spring break and that he had those things ready to bring home with him the next day and that they would be coming back to the US with us later. The guards proceeded to ask a lot more questions with voices raised, etc. Then they informed us that were were going to have to go back to the US. I said, "That's bullshit" in a firm voice. One of the guards came quickly toward me, so I jumped back into the car and locked the door. He roiled for a few seconds and then said, "I'm not going to hit you". I then waited for a moment until he backed away and got back out of the car and said, "Ok, you are making a mistake, we are harmless" etc. We then returned to the US and looped back around to re-attempt crossing, but the license plate had been flagged and we were ordered to leave again without being searched. The next day I called the Canadian border control office and explained to the supervisor what had happened. He said something along the lines of "How do I know you're telling the truth?" and hung up. He obviously didn't care. The next time I went to Canada I asked a few people who worked in tourism related shops just inside the Canadian border if my experience was typical. They told me that the job of border guard appeals to the sort of people who enjoy getting into fights, etc. and that they take the job to "blow off steam". If the supervisor had expressed the slightest concern, etc., I'd attribute it to a random bit of bad luck or misunderstanding, but I think the reality is that excesses/abuses happen all the time. I was ultimately only verbally abused, harassed, and turned away... fortunately the guard who came at me was prevented from acting on his impulse to get physical by my retreat into the car.

tptacek 17y ago

I think a lot of people don't realize that they have drastically reduced rights at or near border crossings. You and your car can be searched by customs at their discretion without warrant or probable cause. The "in some other universe... I didn't get back in my vehicle when I was told to" quote is telling too. I think someone more familiar with how border crossings work would never refuse to physically comply with a demand from officials.

Afton 17y ago
The storytelling here is a little confusing, but isn't he saying that in this universe, he did get back in his vehicle when told? Not discussing whether he deserved a beating or not, just trying to get his story straight.
- tptacek 17y ago
  I got the opposite impression, but it was a bit hard to follow.
potatolicious 17y ago
> The "in some other universe... I didn't get back in my vehicle when I was told to" quote is telling too. I agree. I do not know this man - but from my frequent Canada <-> USA border crossings I do know that while border guard power trips are frequent (too often so), getting beat takes effort. The story is clearly not as clear-cut as a bunch of crooked border cops deciding randomly to pepper spray and beat some guy. His friends and family are free to contribute to his legal defence, but without knowing what really happened I am unwilling to contribute. That being said, the amount of unprofessional power tripping at American borders is ludicrous - myself and other Canadians avoid cross-border travel for this very reason, and it's costing America business. Even my American coworkers get hassled on their way home from Canada, and nearly everyone agrees that Canadian guards are on the whole a hell of a lot more professional and polite. Nothing tops the time I was at the airport in Vancouver, pre-clearing customs. A very large border guard with a pissed off sneer on his face was hassling everyone he dealt with, and verbally berated an elderly gentleman for moving too slowly as he shuffled his way up to the booth. That sort of bullshit cannot be tolerated, and gives America a bad name for no good reason.

akkartik 17y ago

Blindsight (his book) is awesome.

cgranade 17y ago

FYI: Updates from Watts' blog are online at http://www.rifters.com/crawl/?p=935 http://www.rifters.com/crawl/?p=935.

mkyc 17y ago
Awesome, some real information, rather than pointless and obvious speculation as to what happened. He links a news story: http://www.thetimesherald.com/article/20091211/NEWS01/91211010/1002/Science+fiction+writer+charged+after+bridge+struggle http://www.thetimesherald.com/article/20091211/NEWS01/912110...
- cgranade 17y ago
  Sadly, I think we won't get too much more info for a while, since Watts is not in a place to say much right now, and I don't think that the border guards will have much to say...

tc 17y ago

The bottom-line problem seems to be that law-abiding people don't have much experience with being treated like criminals. In a high-pressure situation they sometimes fall back on their quaint expectations of rights and basic human respect. I would wager that someone who had spent serious time in prison would do much better in these situations. The guy probably had a long day. I bet he just wanted nothing more than to get home and go to sleep. He obviously didn't understand what all the fuss was about, and he ended up stepping on someone's hair trigger. It seems terribly unlikely he did something that you or I would consider physically threatening. After being pepper-sprayed and man-handled, and likely not in the soundest state of mind, maybe he even flailed a bit -- guaranteeing an assault charge (and possible conviction). Perhaps that's how it went down. It'll probably turn out that the border guards "followed procedure." But that's exactly the problem that makes the story frightening to us: The path from "long day + non-violent temporary failure of judgement" to "being physically assaulted and facing a life-altering felony charge" seems terribly short.

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drinian 17y ago
quaint expectations of rights and basic human respect. I would wager that someone who had spent serious time in prison would do much better in these situations. This is America. We shouldn't be expected to act like guilty slaves when interacting with law enforcement. Your attitude isn't constructive at all.
- tc 17y ago
  Oh dear. I had hoped that the satire of the first two grafs was self-evident [1]. Helpfully, wiktionary includes for quaint the definition: "quaint, adj., 3. Highly incongruous, inappropriate, or illogical; naive, unreasonable -- usually used ironically." Edit: While sarcasm in writing is a generally bad idea, the tradition of thoughtfully written irony and satire goes back a ways (c.f. A Modest Proposal). It of course does require the reader to reflect intelligently while reading, but that is what we expect in this forum. Since my final three grafs made my position pretty clear, I was rather unsure until your response below whether you were intentionally trolling. [1] My statements are likely true, paradoxically, but we react strongly to the fact that they shouldn't be.

jsz0 17y ago

From the border agent's perspective anyone can be a threat. You should approach these situations avoiding any actions that may confuse you with a lunatic or criminal. Not sure if that was the case here or not. Hopefully it was on camera so we can know the true story.

grandalf 17y ago
So the correct response is to supplicate before the guard, avoiding any visible signs of irritation, hurry, etc. It is generally preferable to put on the most benign facial expression one can muster to avoid threatening or annoying the guard, who has the power to waste several hours of your life on a whim, and can cause far more harm if he chooses.
jacquesm 17y ago
> From the border agent's perspective anyone can be a threat. Yes, but in practice only in their minds. Seriously, if you stop someone going out of the country they most likely are not a threat to you.

nazgulnarsil 17y ago

when stopped by a police officer I always act like they already have a gun pointed at me. I keep my hands visible and answer everything with a 'sir'. maybe there's lots of good cops out there. But if I get the one asshole who gets off on power I'd rather appease his view of the world than challenge it.

cstross 17y ago

I know Peter. He's not the guy most likely to blow up and punch someone. About the only point of information that might serve to remotely spin this in the border guards' favour is that Peter is just shy of seven feet tall: if you're of average height, he looms. I gather the assault indictment stated that he was trying to enter the United States when the incident took place. As he was in fact leaving one wonders what other lies the border patrol are telling?

DanielBMarkham 17y ago

This article sets off my bullshit detector, and let me explain why. First, it's throwing red meat to the dogs. The internet and tech community is extremely sci-fi and video game friendly. This was one of us, and bad things happened to him. Second, it's not a news article. There's no presumption of being two sides to the story. One side is given, by a friend, and a call to action given out. Were the officers interviewed? Was the video-tape released (And you know they have video tape)? Nothing of the barest minimum was done to provide some sort of context. The purpose of this piece is clear: it's a call to action, an editorial, an opinion piece. Don't confuse it with a news article. Third, there's lots of loaded language in here -- "was subject to a beating and arrest", and "the gang of border guards", "and losing it may cost him his entire life" etc. Look -- I'm not taking sides. Border guards screw up and are badly-trained sometimes. That's why we have video on all border crossings. On the other hand, people crossing the border have been known not to be able to handle submitting to requests from people in authority for various reasons. There is a very good case for using physical force on occasion. I simply don't know what happened. What do I do when someone starts singing sweet songs of injustice that sounds wonderful to my libertarian senses? That's when I start asking questions. I would like to know more about this, and from a non-aligned source, before being able to form any kind of opinion at all.

jacquesm 17y ago
I completely and fully believe the story. I've crossed the Canadian - US border many times by car and I've personally witnessed more than one occasion of absolutely unwarranted aggression on the part of the border guards. Seriously, you have to make the trip a couple of times per month for a year or two to get any idea of how many rotten apples there are in that basket. American and Canadian visitors are always completely surprised when we tour the region here, and we go from the Netherlands to France, Belgium and Germany without ever seeing a borderguard in person, let alone having to interact with one. It's really just costumed theater, you could easily do without it and it would not somehow threaten the American way of life. American borders being what they are I stopped going there completely after one especially nasty incident in Miami that caused me to miss a connecting flight. Until sanity returns to the American borders I'm sure they can do without my business.

anguslong 17y ago

Without hearing both sides of the story, an instructional video came to mind: Chris Rock's: How not to get your a$$ kicked by police http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uj0mtxXEGE8 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uj0mtxXEGE8 Hope this situation gets worked out amicably though.

tangram 17y ago

If he was going back to Canada he was not passing through US customs, you just go through and stop at Canadian customs. He was pulled over by the US border police so this could not have been a customs matter. Unless they had tip that he was doing something illegal or he broke a law like speeding, I don't know why they would have pulled him over. Also I have crossed the border plenty of times, what I have issues with is that customs officials are given too much discretion it seems in what they can do. If an officer has a bad day they can pretty much do what they wanted. The worst I saw was when my brother was renewing his TN1 visa. I was driving him to the airport in Buffalo. We waited for close to two hours at the customs office. The whole time the customs officers were just talking about their weekend, what their plans were, on one was actually doing their job. Two girls that were there before us finally asked, and they were were courteous while do so, when their case would be handled. They said they had waited for 3 hours and were on their way to a funeral. The customs officer blew up at them right away, told them to shut up, used allot of swear words directed at them and threatened to throw them in jail. Nothing the girls did warranted that behavior. After his tirade he had everyone that was waiting come over and denied them entry right on the spot without hearing them out. The whole time all the other officers were just laughing. Usually everyone has always been professional when I crossed the border and that was the only time I have seen someone on a power trip. But it does happen, and when it happens you are pretty much screwed if you are caught in the cross fire.

berntb 17y ago
Lifecasting should change rude behavior like this in our lifetimes. Just consider, if there is 5-10% risk of someone being an a..hole/criminal almost directly ends up at Youtube, media or the police. We can look forward to a polite society. (I think this argument was from Steve Mann, but my memory might have bitrot.)
ajb 17y ago
It's not that hard to think of reasons why the border guards would pull someone innocent over on the way out. Most obviously, he or his car could fit the description of an all-points alert; at least, enough that they want a closer look.