5 ms·

I'm relatively new to Macs, but it seems like it's partially a cultural thing. When I first got a macbook for work, I found my fingertips got really uncomfortab

by fenomas 11y ago

I'm relatively new to Macs, but it seems like it's partially a cultural thing. When I first got a macbook for work, I found my fingertips got really uncomfortable from how hot the keyboard and mousepad got, and assumed there was a problem to be solved, but several Mac-centric colleagues said they just got used to it. I wound up downloading some random app that lets you control when the fans turn on - and voila, a cool(ish) keyboard. As near as I can tell, by default OSX intentionally just leaves the fans off until well after things get uncomfortable.

MichaelGG 11y ago
I get extremely uncomfortable with any keyboard that's hotter than my fingers. Why do people put up with this? ThinkPads aren't great either, though a Broadwell CPU is fast enough that I can leave it throttled to 700MHz and day to day Visual Studio (except compiling) and Firefox usage is fine. This way it stays under skin temp.
marcoperaza 11y ago
"You're holding it wrong!" Apple can do no wrong! /s
hellbanner 11y ago
I've gotten first degree burns from an old MBP that overheated. It's like they didn't test it..
- toomuchtodo 11y ago
  They do test it, it's just that Apple values form over function. Because of this, they run their gear with a much slimmer thermal margin.
  - marincounty 11y ago
    I sometimes wonder if this form over function is a bad idea? Wouldn't the average consumer like a product that was easily serviceable? I have an old Toshiba Satellite Pro s25-S607. It big(17" and I don't care about the weight), but it has been basically running 5 hrs/day for more than a decade. It does gave three fans, but they are quiet. I can work on it! I think the first company that builds a laptop that's easy to work on, and can guarantee supply parts for, at least 7 years, might be able to win over guys like me--who want consistancy? I want to turn it on, and do work. I don't need the fastest chip. I do want to be able to work on the devise myself. I am older, but never understood this weight thing--make it out of metal(Aluminum is fine. Use the case to disperse the heat--great! I don't care, as long as I can take out the screws, and put them back in, and they don't strip.) I have seen so many products start out great, but get too fancy. So fancy, they don't work? And can't be repaired, reasonable priced, because of the Fancyness? (Don't get me wrong, I'm still a fanboy, but they are loosing me with every new upgrade, and model.)
    - jackvalentine 11y ago
      > Wouldn't the average consumer like a product that was easily serviceable? The answer to this is a resounding "no".
      - vitd 11y ago
        Not only that, but when Apple sells a computer to users who would like an easily serviceable product, they do quite a good job of it. Older Mac Pros are a joy to work in compared to many Windows PCs I've had to deal with. No thumbscrews, parts slide in and out easily, etc. The newer Mac Pros are fairly serviceable too, though there's not nearly as much reason to need to.
    - derekp7 11y ago
      That's one of the things I like about the ThinkPad line (at least the ones where Lenovo kept most of IBM's design ideas). The service manuals are available online if you want to look through them, and they are meant to be field serviceable (at least the X and T series are, I don't have experience with the other ones). That is, you can easily disassemble them following the service manuals, without having to worry about breaking tabs off or prying apart glued-together plastic components.
- PopeOfNope 11y ago
  This has been an issue ever since they went unibody. A single, solid block of aluminum in direct contact with heat generating components. It's hard to believe they didn't intend the unibodies to act as heatsinks. Hasn't hurt their popularity at all, though.
  - asanagi 11y ago
    It's been an issue since they switched from the G4, TBH.
  - parasubvert 11y ago
    I had a first generation MBP Intel back in 2006 , Core Duo, before the unibodies came out. Now THAT one was hot - I had to keep the fans cranked through software all the time or it would randomly shutdown from overheating. Apparently it was a misapplication of thermal paste in the manufacturing process. Other unibodies have been okay, the retina MBP being the best so far I find at even heat dissipation.
    - PopeOfNope 11y ago
      I also had a pre-unibody core duo. Mine was a 17 inch, though. Guess mine had all its thermal paste in the right place. :) It got hot enough to be uncomfortable, but not hot enough to burn.
  - hellbanner 11y ago
    You gotta hand it to them, their factories in China & their designers in California make a damn fine machine.
jbrooksuk 11y ago
For those interested, it's likely smcFanControl - https://github.com/hholtmann/smcFanControl https://github.com/hholtmann/smcFanControl
- larrys 11y ago
  Doesn't turn the fan off but I found Temperature Gauge App to be very helpful in terms of monitoring what is going on with the fan and temperature. https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/temperature-gauge/id467830521?mt=12 https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/temperature-gauge/id46783052... Looks like they have another app which does have fan control: http://www.tunabellysoftware.com/temperature_gauge/ http://www.tunabellysoftware.com/temperature_gauge/
  - achairapart 11y ago
    Also, iStats Menus: http://bjango.com/mac/istatmenus/ http://bjango.com/mac/istatmenus/ I feel I can't live without it.
- fenomas 11y ago
  That's not the one I had, but it looks better - thanks!
mahyarm 11y ago
If you turn off turbo boost, the fan pretty much never turns on, a lot less heat and you get a couple more hours of battery life. Here is a switcher app to turn it on and off: http://www.rugarciap.com/turbo-boost-switcher-for-os-x/ http://www.rugarciap.com/turbo-boost-switcher-for-os-x/
justizin 11y ago
It's possible that a lot of Mac users are simply not objecting to something they should. I have been using aluminum Apple laptops since they had a PowerPC G4 and were called PowerBooks, and there have been some models with known heat issues. It doesn't surprise me to hear this about the new 12", I think what they're going for is doable, but perhaps ambitious at this stage. There was a 12" G4 which wasn't fanless, but still crammed too much into too small a package. I have a Unibody 15" MBP from 20011 or so that has absolutely no heat problems, have used several generations of 11" and 13" Air and both 13" and 15" Retina MBP and I don't have any substantial heat problems. One thing a lot of people don't understand is the thermal design expects to be on a flat surface so that there is some air under the machine, in the small gap created by the rubber feet. If you use any of these machines on a bed, a couch, on top of a pillow, or on your lap, they'll get hotter. I keep a piece of cardboard handy for when I want to use my machine in bed.

by fenomas 11y ago

MichaelGG 11y ago

I get extremely uncomfortable with any keyboard that's hotter than my fingers. Why do people put up with this? ThinkPads aren't great either, though a Broadwell CPU is fast enough that I can leave it throttled to 700MHz and day to day Visual Studio (except compiling) and Firefox usage is fine. This way it stays under skin temp.

marcoperaza 11y ago

"You're holding it wrong!" Apple can do no wrong! /s

hellbanner 11y ago

I've gotten first degree burns from an old MBP that overheated. It's like they didn't test it..

toomuchtodo 11y ago
They do test it, it's just that Apple values form over function. Because of this, they run their gear with a much slimmer thermal margin.
- marincounty 11y ago
  I sometimes wonder if this form over function is a bad idea? Wouldn't the average consumer like a product that was easily serviceable? I have an old Toshiba Satellite Pro s25-S607. It big(17" and I don't care about the weight), but it has been basically running 5 hrs/day for more than a decade. It does gave three fans, but they are quiet. I can work on it! I think the first company that builds a laptop that's easy to work on, and can guarantee supply parts for, at least 7 years, might be able to win over guys like me--who want consistancy? I want to turn it on, and do work. I don't need the fastest chip. I do want to be able to work on the devise myself. I am older, but never understood this weight thing--make it out of metal(Aluminum is fine. Use the case to disperse the heat--great! I don't care, as long as I can take out the screws, and put them back in, and they don't strip.) I have seen so many products start out great, but get too fancy. So fancy, they don't work? And can't be repaired, reasonable priced, because of the Fancyness? (Don't get me wrong, I'm still a fanboy, but they are loosing me with every new upgrade, and model.)
  - jackvalentine 11y ago
    > Wouldn't the average consumer like a product that was easily serviceable? The answer to this is a resounding "no".
    - vitd 11y ago
      Not only that, but when Apple sells a computer to users who would like an easily serviceable product, they do quite a good job of it. Older Mac Pros are a joy to work in compared to many Windows PCs I've had to deal with. No thumbscrews, parts slide in and out easily, etc. The newer Mac Pros are fairly serviceable too, though there's not nearly as much reason to need to.
  - derekp7 11y ago
    That's one of the things I like about the ThinkPad line (at least the ones where Lenovo kept most of IBM's design ideas). The service manuals are available online if you want to look through them, and they are meant to be field serviceable (at least the X and T series are, I don't have experience with the other ones). That is, you can easily disassemble them following the service manuals, without having to worry about breaking tabs off or prying apart glued-together plastic components.
PopeOfNope 11y ago
This has been an issue ever since they went unibody. A single, solid block of aluminum in direct contact with heat generating components. It's hard to believe they didn't intend the unibodies to act as heatsinks. Hasn't hurt their popularity at all, though.
- asanagi 11y ago
  It's been an issue since they switched from the G4, TBH.
- parasubvert 11y ago
  I had a first generation MBP Intel back in 2006 , Core Duo, before the unibodies came out. Now THAT one was hot - I had to keep the fans cranked through software all the time or it would randomly shutdown from overheating. Apparently it was a misapplication of thermal paste in the manufacturing process. Other unibodies have been okay, the retina MBP being the best so far I find at even heat dissipation.
  - PopeOfNope 11y ago
    I also had a pre-unibody core duo. Mine was a 17 inch, though. Guess mine had all its thermal paste in the right place. :) It got hot enough to be uncomfortable, but not hot enough to burn.
- hellbanner 11y ago
  You gotta hand it to them, their factories in China & their designers in California make a damn fine machine.

jbrooksuk 11y ago

For those interested, it's likely smcFanControl - https://github.com/hholtmann/smcFanControl https://github.com/hholtmann/smcFanControl

larrys 11y ago
Doesn't turn the fan off but I found Temperature Gauge App to be very helpful in terms of monitoring what is going on with the fan and temperature. https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/temperature-gauge/id467830521?mt=12 https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/temperature-gauge/id46783052... Looks like they have another app which does have fan control: http://www.tunabellysoftware.com/temperature_gauge/ http://www.tunabellysoftware.com/temperature_gauge/
- achairapart 11y ago
  Also, iStats Menus: http://bjango.com/mac/istatmenus/ http://bjango.com/mac/istatmenus/ I feel I can't live without it.
fenomas 11y ago
That's not the one I had, but it looks better - thanks!

mahyarm 11y ago

If you turn off turbo boost, the fan pretty much never turns on, a lot less heat and you get a couple more hours of battery life. Here is a switcher app to turn it on and off: http://www.rugarciap.com/turbo-boost-switcher-for-os-x/ http://www.rugarciap.com/turbo-boost-switcher-for-os-x/

justizin 11y ago

It's possible that a lot of Mac users are simply not objecting to something they should. I have been using aluminum Apple laptops since they had a PowerPC G4 and were called PowerBooks, and there have been some models with known heat issues. It doesn't surprise me to hear this about the new 12", I think what they're going for is doable, but perhaps ambitious at this stage. There was a 12" G4 which wasn't fanless, but still crammed too much into too small a package. I have a Unibody 15" MBP from 20011 or so that has absolutely no heat problems, have used several generations of 11" and 13" Air and both 13" and 15" Retina MBP and I don't have any substantial heat problems. One thing a lot of people don't understand is the thermal design expects to be on a flat surface so that there is some air under the machine, in the small gap created by the rubber feet. If you use any of these machines on a bed, a couch, on top of a pillow, or on your lap, they'll get hotter. I keep a piece of cardboard handy for when I want to use my machine in bed.