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Are you implying that it would be good if the ones sent were based on a gender balance rather than being chosen on their math ability?

lwhalen 11y ago
It's far preferable to be politically correct than to win, don'tcha know. /s
veridies 11y ago
He might be suggesting that Ukraine and Bosnia-Herzegovina are to be lauded for having an educational system that doesn't end up leaving half of the population behind.
- throwit542 11y ago
  You're talking about the U.S. educational system leaving men behind, right? Because in America, women are more likely to graduate high school [0], enroll in college [1], graduate from college [2], and even make up 3/5's of graduate students [2]. [0] http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0779196.html http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0779196.html [1] http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/03/06/womens-college-enrollment-gains-leave-men-behind/ http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/03/06/womens-colle... [2] http://www.prb.org/Publications/Articles/2011/gender-gap-in-education.aspx http://www.prb.org/Publications/Articles/2011/gender-gap-in-...
calibraxis 11y ago
Intentionally uncharitable interpretation. More likely that the other teams (and the systems backing them) privileged guys, instead of educating and choosing on math ability.
- hamstergene 11y ago
  What makes you think that is more likely? In 2013, it was Finland and Costa Rica whose teams were "gender balanced", not Ukraine and Bosnia&Herzegovina. In 2012, Bolivia. In 2009, Kuwait. Previous years stats don't suggest their education systems are anyhow different, it's just how this year's random has laid out.
VeejayRampay 11y ago
It might be. What if there's a psychological barrier in place in a given society where a given group of people are repeatedly told either directly or implicitly through societal conventions inherited from previous centuries that they don't have the gift for science or maths in particular. In such a context, it would actually be beneficial to send "balanced teams" to such competitions so that it gives a mental boost (in the form of a symbol/token/role model that acts as a vessel) to perfectly capable people that just started with the handicap of being say "a woman", "a black" or "a redneck". As such, reasoning in terms of "ability" is fundamentally flawed because "skills" are never innate, they're the result of a lot of work and positive circumstances in a given field and starting with a handicap from the get go just makes it so much harder that it's absolutely not a level ground.
- Moshe_Silnorin 11y ago
  Scott Alexander writes well about this topic: http://slatestarcodex.com/2015/01/24/perceptions-of-required-ability-act-as-a-proxy-for-actual-required-ability-in-explaining-the-gender-gap/ http://slatestarcodex.com/2015/01/24/perceptions-of-required...
- gech 11y ago
  What if they do worse than the man on the whole in some or many instances? What happens to the image you were trying to create then?
deleted 11y ago
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RA_Fisher 11y ago
It could be that the concept of math ability itself is currently defined to preference a gender. Or, taught in a way to preference gender. Or a gender is ridiculed systematically during the learning process. It's not so simple.

lwhalen 11y ago

It's far preferable to be politically correct than to win, don'tcha know. /s

veridies 11y ago

He might be suggesting that Ukraine and Bosnia-Herzegovina are to be lauded for having an educational system that doesn't end up leaving half of the population behind.

throwit542 11y ago
You're talking about the U.S. educational system leaving men behind, right? Because in America, women are more likely to graduate high school [0], enroll in college [1], graduate from college [2], and even make up 3/5's of graduate students [2]. [0] http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0779196.html http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0779196.html [1] http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/03/06/womens-college-enrollment-gains-leave-men-behind/ http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/03/06/womens-colle... [2] http://www.prb.org/Publications/Articles/2011/gender-gap-in-education.aspx http://www.prb.org/Publications/Articles/2011/gender-gap-in-...

calibraxis 11y ago

Intentionally uncharitable interpretation. More likely that the other teams (and the systems backing them) privileged guys, instead of educating and choosing on math ability.

hamstergene 11y ago
What makes you think that is more likely? In 2013, it was Finland and Costa Rica whose teams were "gender balanced", not Ukraine and Bosnia&Herzegovina. In 2012, Bolivia. In 2009, Kuwait. Previous years stats don't suggest their education systems are anyhow different, it's just how this year's random has laid out.

VeejayRampay 11y ago

It might be. What if there's a psychological barrier in place in a given society where a given group of people are repeatedly told either directly or implicitly through societal conventions inherited from previous centuries that they don't have the gift for science or maths in particular. In such a context, it would actually be beneficial to send "balanced teams" to such competitions so that it gives a mental boost (in the form of a symbol/token/role model that acts as a vessel) to perfectly capable people that just started with the handicap of being say "a woman", "a black" or "a redneck". As such, reasoning in terms of "ability" is fundamentally flawed because "skills" are never innate, they're the result of a lot of work and positive circumstances in a given field and starting with a handicap from the get go just makes it so much harder that it's absolutely not a level ground.

Moshe_Silnorin 11y ago
Scott Alexander writes well about this topic: http://slatestarcodex.com/2015/01/24/perceptions-of-required-ability-act-as-a-proxy-for-actual-required-ability-in-explaining-the-gender-gap/ http://slatestarcodex.com/2015/01/24/perceptions-of-required...
gech 11y ago
What if they do worse than the man on the whole in some or many instances? What happens to the image you were trying to create then?

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

RA_Fisher 11y ago

It could be that the concept of math ability itself is currently defined to preference a gender. Or, taught in a way to preference gender. Or a gender is ridiculed systematically during the learning process. It's not so simple.