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FWIW, any theory that tries to say that larger scale relationships exactly match smaller scale ones is surely wrong, but so is any theory that tries to deny hol

FWIW, any theory that tries to say that larger scale relationships exactly match smaller scale ones is surely wrong, but so is any theory that tries to deny holistic aspects at larger scales. Just like organs do not work like large cells and people aren't large-scale organs, societies aren't large scale people. But there are social elements that bind us into a society. Dogmatic individualism is wrong, and treating society as an individual is also wrong.

javajosh 11y ago
Can I just say "Thank you" for pointing out the key difference between looking at things that look similar at different space scales but remembering that no, actually they are completely different. That dust storm from space may look like the beach at my feet, but they are two very different systems that move differently, and arise for different reasons. It's cool that they look the same, and no doubt that's meaningful for some reason, but it doesn't mean they are the same. In any event the US acts like a person because it is basically the President plus Congress plus the leaders of the top 100 public and private American institutions. Any group that small is going to act coherently.
- quadrangle 11y ago
  I'm not ready to accept the simplification of a few leaders and powerful people having quite that level of significance. I think the U.S. is still a much more massive complex system. Your assertion is sorta like saying that the human body is like an organ because it is basically the heart, brain, and eyes. We obviously do not live in anarchy, but I don't think our world can be so simplified accurately either.
foldr 11y ago
The article isn't saying that the larger scale relationships exactly match the smaller scale ones. It's just making the claim that the larger scale relationships include all the ingredients that materialists usually identify as sufficient for consciousness.

javajosh 11y ago

Can I just say "Thank you" for pointing out the key difference between looking at things that look similar at different space scales but remembering that no, actually they are completely different. That dust storm from space may look like the beach at my feet, but they are two very different systems that move differently, and arise for different reasons. It's cool that they look the same, and no doubt that's meaningful for some reason, but it doesn't mean they are the same. In any event the US acts like a person because it is basically the President plus Congress plus the leaders of the top 100 public and private American institutions. Any group that small is going to act coherently.

quadrangle 11y ago
I'm not ready to accept the simplification of a few leaders and powerful people having quite that level of significance. I think the U.S. is still a much more massive complex system. Your assertion is sorta like saying that the human body is like an organ because it is basically the heart, brain, and eyes. We obviously do not live in anarchy, but I don't think our world can be so simplified accurately either.

foldr 11y ago

The article isn't saying that the larger scale relationships exactly match the smaller scale ones. It's just making the claim that the larger scale relationships include all the ingredients that materialists usually identify as sufficient for consciousness.