4 ms·

A collection of entities or the pattern the entities partake in are NOT self aware. It's only the entity itself observing the pattern or collection as such, tha

A collection of entities or the pattern the entities partake in are NOT self aware. It's only the entity itself observing the pattern or collection as such, that is. It seems people are postulating properties of collections and patterns of groups, then checking things off, one by one, being satisfied of the similarities. It is the person checking these things off that is realizing similarities then taking the leap of anthropomorphizing awareness into that idea.

visarga 11y ago
What is the essential difference between an entity and a collection? I assume an entity is also a collection of smaller parts.
- sebringj 11y ago
  Self awareness is the debate, not constituent parts.
cortesoft 11y ago
So we are not self aware, but our brain cells are? But aren't the brain cells themselves also just a collection of entities (molecules?)
- burke 11y ago
  The salient difference for me here is that the brain has a holistic factor: Individual brain cells are not self-aware, or intelligent in any capacity. A whole brain is both. Individual humans in The United States are aware of both themselves and of the United States. The United States is arguably not aware of itself in a greater-than-the-sum-of-its-parts capacity, as a human brain is. (So far I've only read the abstract of the linked article)
  - 21echoes 11y ago
    how do you know that the United States is not aware of itself? do you think that brain cells are (would be) aware of the fact that we are conscious?
    - burke 11y ago
      It's a fun thought experiment, but the illusion of self probably didn't just spontaneously arise in humans; it's much more likely to be an adaptation from hundreds of thousands of generations of natural selection for a more intelligent species. Nature selected countless times, through genetic succession, for the more aware species. > do you think that brain cells are (would be) aware of the fact that we are conscious? No, a neuron is too simple a system to be capable of awareness by itself. I get what you're getting at, but if we're talking about a higher-level phenomenon, let's not also call it consciousness. In fact, we essentially use "consciousness" as a post-facto description of our own illusion of self, so it essentially makes no sense to ascribe it to a system that didn't arise more or less the same way as we did.
- sebringj 11y ago
  Our brain cells individually are not postulating self-awareness.

visarga 11y ago

What is the essential difference between an entity and a collection? I assume an entity is also a collection of smaller parts.

sebringj 11y ago
Self awareness is the debate, not constituent parts.

cortesoft 11y ago

So we are not self aware, but our brain cells are? But aren't the brain cells themselves also just a collection of entities (molecules?)

burke 11y ago
The salient difference for me here is that the brain has a holistic factor: Individual brain cells are not self-aware, or intelligent in any capacity. A whole brain is both. Individual humans in The United States are aware of both themselves and of the United States. The United States is arguably not aware of itself in a greater-than-the-sum-of-its-parts capacity, as a human brain is. (So far I've only read the abstract of the linked article)
- 21echoes 11y ago
  how do you know that the United States is not aware of itself? do you think that brain cells are (would be) aware of the fact that we are conscious?
  - burke 11y ago
    It's a fun thought experiment, but the illusion of self probably didn't just spontaneously arise in humans; it's much more likely to be an adaptation from hundreds of thousands of generations of natural selection for a more intelligent species. Nature selected countless times, through genetic succession, for the more aware species. > do you think that brain cells are (would be) aware of the fact that we are conscious? No, a neuron is too simple a system to be capable of awareness by itself. I get what you're getting at, but if we're talking about a higher-level phenomenon, let's not also call it consciousness. In fact, we essentially use "consciousness" as a post-facto description of our own illusion of self, so it essentially makes no sense to ascribe it to a system that didn't arise more or less the same way as we did.
sebringj 11y ago
Our brain cells individually are not postulating self-awareness.