4 ms·

BASIC, Second Edition (1964) [pdf]

46 points by networked 11y ago

blater 11y ago
length of program: ...in general no more than two feet of teletype printout. Teletype feet as a unit of cyclomatic complexity is retro-cool.
- userbinator 11y ago
  Imagine two typewritten pages on standard A4/letter-size paper, which is ~11 inches high - that's probably the entire RAM of those systems at the time; several KB at most.
  - PhantomGremlin 11y ago
    that's probably the entire RAM of those systems at the time; several KB at most Dartmouth Time Sharing System[1] started out on relatively small computers, but by 1965 was running on a very state-of-the-art mainframe, the GE 635[2]. It had about 1 MB memory. That doesn't sound like much right now, but: The 635 version provided interactive time-sharing to up to nearly 300 simultaneous users in the 1970s, a very large number at the time It's the wheel of reincarnation. What we now call "the cloud" was called "time-sharing" in the 1960s. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dartmouth_Time_Sharing_System https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dartmouth_Time_Sharing_System [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GE-600_series https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GE-600_series
    - Allegrippus 11y ago
      Also, much of the actual time-sharing control on those GE's was handled by a separate communications processor (e.g. Datanet-30) with its own memory space and registers.
    - userbinator 11y ago
      It looks like they used the GE-235 originally, which only had 8K words of 20 bits each (i.e. 20KB.) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GE-200_series https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GE-200_series
    - jmount 11y ago
      I love that observation. Here is the reference for fun: http://cva.stanford.edu/classes/cs99s/papers/myer-sutherland-design-of-display-processors.pdf http://cva.stanford.edu/classes/cs99s/papers/myer-sutherland...
- ams6110 11y ago
  As slow as teletype printing is, you probably wouldn't want to wait for more than about 2 feet of output anyway.
  - PhantomGremlin 11y ago
    You generally had no choice about it. For example, Dartmouth Time Sharing supported the Teletype ASR-33[1], which ran at 10 characters per second. So if you were printing a moderately long program you would need to wait 5 minutes or more. Also the density of the tape wasn't very high (I'm guessing less than 10 characters per inch). Which means that 5 minutes of printing amounted to 300 inches, or 25 feet. It wasn't really a problem, because the paper tape naturally curled up. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teletype_Model_33 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teletype_Model_33
snori74 11y ago
Notice the MAT (matrix) commands on page 51. When I first came across BASIC in the 70's it was known for three things in particular: (i) being interpreted rather than compiled, (ii) having these MAT commands, and (iii) being simpler and beginner friendly than FORTRAN or Algol. The MAT commands seem to have been dropped from most later versions. (It was at first a compiled language, but it really took off once interpreters become available on time-share systems. It was probably that aspect, rather than the syntax, which made it more suited to beginners).
invaliduser 11y ago
It's interesting to note the usage of the slashed O (letter o) as opposed to the modern slashed zero (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slashed_zero https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slashed_zero ).
- snori74 11y ago
  Yes, that stood out to me too. I recall there being two competing camps in the mid 70's regarding whether to 'slash' the O's or the 0's. In search of who these sides were, I came across http://www.circuitousroot.com/artifice/letters/characters/slashed-o/index.html#introduction http://www.circuitousroot.com/artifice/letters/characters/sl... which is a useful summary.
- once-in-a-while 11y ago
  Some old mechanical typewriters didn't have the Zero '0', one had to use the 'O' character. That's the historical reason.
  - jeffwass 11y ago
    My dad's old typewriter also didn't have a number 1 key, so you had to use lower-case L (ie, l).
- pavlov 11y ago
  It reads very Danish. 10 PRINT "TØ BE ØR NØT TØ BE" 20 READ A$ 30 GØTØ 10
DrTung 11y ago
I like that motto "Typing is no substitute for thinking." in the PDF. Applies equally well today :-)
jonjacky 11y ago
Here are some photos of students and others using the system at Dartmouth ca 1964. Many show the rolls of teletype paper. https://www.flickr.com/photos/dartmouthflickr/sets/72157643275728555/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/dartmouthflickr/sets/721576432... This paper from Science in 1968 explains how the time-sharing operating system (one of the first ever, including two CPUs communicating through a shared disk) was "designed and constructed by a team consisting of the authors (Kemeny and Kurtz) and a dozen undergraduate students." http://dtss.dartmouth.edu/sciencearticle http://dtss.dartmouth.edu/sciencearticle They write, "This experience revealed that bright undergraduate college students were extremely adept at computer programming, and that with little training they could produce major programs and software systems better than those professionally produced and commercially available."

46 points by networked 11y ago

length of program: ...in general no more than two feet of teletype printout. Teletype feet as a unit of cyclomatic complexity is retro-cool.

userbinator 11y ago
Imagine two typewritten pages on standard A4/letter-size paper, which is ~11 inches high - that's probably the entire RAM of those systems at the time; several KB at most.
- PhantomGremlin 11y ago
  that's probably the entire RAM of those systems at the time; several KB at most Dartmouth Time Sharing System[1] started out on relatively small computers, but by 1965 was running on a very state-of-the-art mainframe, the GE 635[2]. It had about 1 MB memory. That doesn't sound like much right now, but: The 635 version provided interactive time-sharing to up to nearly 300 simultaneous users in the 1970s, a very large number at the time It's the wheel of reincarnation. What we now call "the cloud" was called "time-sharing" in the 1960s. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dartmouth_Time_Sharing_System https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dartmouth_Time_Sharing_System [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GE-600_series https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GE-600_series
  - Allegrippus 11y ago
    Also, much of the actual time-sharing control on those GE's was handled by a separate communications processor (e.g. Datanet-30) with its own memory space and registers.
  - userbinator 11y ago
    It looks like they used the GE-235 originally, which only had 8K words of 20 bits each (i.e. 20KB.) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GE-200_series https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GE-200_series
  - jmount 11y ago
    I love that observation. Here is the reference for fun: http://cva.stanford.edu/classes/cs99s/papers/myer-sutherland-design-of-display-processors.pdf http://cva.stanford.edu/classes/cs99s/papers/myer-sutherland...
ams6110 11y ago
As slow as teletype printing is, you probably wouldn't want to wait for more than about 2 feet of output anyway.
- PhantomGremlin 11y ago
  You generally had no choice about it. For example, Dartmouth Time Sharing supported the Teletype ASR-33[1], which ran at 10 characters per second. So if you were printing a moderately long program you would need to wait 5 minutes or more. Also the density of the tape wasn't very high (I'm guessing less than 10 characters per inch). Which means that 5 minutes of printing amounted to 300 inches, or 25 feet. It wasn't really a problem, because the paper tape naturally curled up. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teletype_Model_33 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teletype_Model_33

snori74 11y ago

Notice the MAT (matrix) commands on page 51. When I first came across BASIC in the 70's it was known for three things in particular: (i) being interpreted rather than compiled, (ii) having these MAT commands, and (iii) being simpler and beginner friendly than FORTRAN or Algol. The MAT commands seem to have been dropped from most later versions. (It was at first a compiled language, but it really took off once interpreters become available on time-share systems. It was probably that aspect, rather than the syntax, which made it more suited to beginners).

invaliduser 11y ago

It's interesting to note the usage of the slashed O (letter o) as opposed to the modern slashed zero (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slashed_zero https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slashed_zero ).

snori74 11y ago
Yes, that stood out to me too. I recall there being two competing camps in the mid 70's regarding whether to 'slash' the O's or the 0's. In search of who these sides were, I came across http://www.circuitousroot.com/artifice/letters/characters/slashed-o/index.html#introduction http://www.circuitousroot.com/artifice/letters/characters/sl... which is a useful summary.
once-in-a-while 11y ago
Some old mechanical typewriters didn't have the Zero '0', one had to use the 'O' character. That's the historical reason.
- jeffwass 11y ago
  My dad's old typewriter also didn't have a number 1 key, so you had to use lower-case L (ie, l).
pavlov 11y ago
It reads very Danish. 10 PRINT "TØ BE ØR NØT TØ BE" 20 READ A$ 30 GØTØ 10

DrTung 11y ago

I like that motto "Typing is no substitute for thinking." in the PDF. Applies equally well today :-)

jonjacky 11y ago

Here are some photos of students and others using the system at Dartmouth ca 1964. Many show the rolls of teletype paper. https://www.flickr.com/photos/dartmouthflickr/sets/72157643275728555/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/dartmouthflickr/sets/721576432... This paper from Science in 1968 explains how the time-sharing operating system (one of the first ever, including two CPUs communicating through a shared disk) was "designed and constructed by a team consisting of the authors (Kemeny and Kurtz) and a dozen undergraduate students." http://dtss.dartmouth.edu/sciencearticle http://dtss.dartmouth.edu/sciencearticle They write, "This experience revealed that bright undergraduate college students were extremely adept at computer programming, and that with little training they could produce major programs and software systems better than those professionally produced and commercially available."