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Tesla's seems to be beating a dead horse! Don't get me wrong; I love what Tesla does but making a faster production car seems to be an answer to the critics who

Tesla's seems to be beating a dead horse! Don't get me wrong; I love what Tesla does but making a faster production car seems to be an answer to the critics who I think have already taken home the message that the electric car is as fast as the best IC car! I think what they should address is getting out the affordable Model 3 as fast to the market as they can. They may loose the game if the incumbents beat them to it. They would need volume to sustain their production and maintenance costs. Once every manufacturer gets onto the electric wagon, a lack of wider adoption, could become their Achilles heels.

outworlder 11y ago
Should that happen, my guess is that they would be quite happy to sell their batteries to everyone else.
- joshuapants 11y ago
  And I bet everyone else would be quite happy to buy them rather than setting up their own factories.
- UnoriginalGuy 11y ago
  Didn't Tesla already give away their battery intellectual property or similar? If they did why wouldn't these other companies not just produce it themselves to cut Tesla out?
  - outworlder 11y ago
    Their patents, yes. That's just the beginning. Now all that one needs to do is to poach their battery engineers. And build their own factories. And iron out the kinks. It's not like a competitor will be able to get their tech and beat them at their own game overnight - while delivering a cheaper product!
cromwellian 11y ago
I'm pretty sure they're working as hard as possible on that, but the key to reducing the costs is the battery packs and that won't happen until gigafactory comes online. Other manufacturers will face the same cost issues but won't own their own gigafactory
joshuapants 11y ago
> I think what they should address is getting out the affordable Model 3 as fast to the market as they can. I agree, but I doubt this project took any manpower or resources away from the Model 3. If anything, it'll generate some extra cash to help with their R&D.
lyime 11y ago
Perhaps this is a side-effect of all of the R&D that's going into developing other cars and the drive-train for the Model 3?
veemjeem 11y ago
Anyone who is aware of the mythical man month should know that throwing more people on a project does not magically speed things up. Tesla probably has a core team that can execute faster if they had less people on the project. The other spare Tesla engineers are not going to twiddle their thumbs... they're going to make the existing Model S more appealing.
Havoc 11y ago
Its easier to expand downwards. e.g. Take Porsche...they have a bullet proof brand so they can sell a Cayenne football mom SUV fairly easily...just costs a bit of brand dilution. Doing the opposite (SUV to sportscar) would be a tough sell no matter how (objectively) good the sportscar is.
- cglee 11y ago
  > It's easier to expand downwards Lots of business research says this is not true, and in fact, the opposite. This is why VW is the world's most popular car maker, and not Porsche.
  - DanBC 11y ago
    Aren't VW and Porsche part of the same company?
    - arethuza 11y ago
      VW is one of the car brands of VW Group - along with Seat, Skoda, Audi, Lamborghini, Bentley, Bugatti and Porsche... VW Group are masters of "badge engineering" - features and designs trickle down from the likes of Audi to VW and then to Seat and Skoda.
  - yellowapple 11y ago
    IIRC, it's actually Toyota that's the world's most popular car maker (by number of cars sold, at 10.23 million last year), not VW; this has been the case for the last 3 years [0]. VW is very close behind, though, at 10.14 million (and GM is close behind that at 9.92 million). Not to say that your point is inaccurate (it's actually very accurate; the ability for companies like Toyota to drive down costs goes a long way toward mass adoption, and it's something that "luxury" makers like Porsche don't typically have the experience in). Tesla could very well be an exception here, since the big focus as of late is to ramp up manufacturing until Model-whatevers (and, in particular, their batteries) can flow out of factories at ludicrous speeds. [0]: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/industry/11360994/Toyota-stays-out-in-front-in-as-worlds-best-selling-auto-company.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/industry/113...
rjusher 11y ago
This is like saying that the Formula 1, exists for nothing. This is the way to test all the engineering efforts, it also leaves that knowledge in the company for future and further improvements, which directly influences the design and execution of the Model 3. But I have to agree that waiting for an affordable Tesla car is getting anoying, and they do need to create an income stream from a lower priced model for creating a sustainable company, and take advantage of the wow factor that still surrounds Tesla and evertything they make. But they have also innovated in other areas like the house batteries, which for me was a surprise (for me it seems odd that Tesla makes batteries for the average household) but they are generating other income streams, so it seems that Teslas agenda is not only the Model 3.
- myth_buster 11y ago
  As a fellow F1 buff, the upgrades takes years to roll down to production cars. And in software parlance, they shouldn't be focusing on the MVP at this point. they have also innovated in other areas like the house batteries That right and that may be more profitable and they may pivot and leave the car manufacturing to the incumbents.
ForHackernews 11y ago
The incumbents have already beaten them to the mass-market segment. The Nissan Leaf and the Chevy Volt are both affordable, competent (if unexciting) electric vehicles.

outworlder 11y ago

Should that happen, my guess is that they would be quite happy to sell their batteries to everyone else.

joshuapants 11y ago
And I bet everyone else would be quite happy to buy them rather than setting up their own factories.
UnoriginalGuy 11y ago
Didn't Tesla already give away their battery intellectual property or similar? If they did why wouldn't these other companies not just produce it themselves to cut Tesla out?
- outworlder 11y ago
  Their patents, yes. That's just the beginning. Now all that one needs to do is to poach their battery engineers. And build their own factories. And iron out the kinks. It's not like a competitor will be able to get their tech and beat them at their own game overnight - while delivering a cheaper product!

cromwellian 11y ago

I'm pretty sure they're working as hard as possible on that, but the key to reducing the costs is the battery packs and that won't happen until gigafactory comes online. Other manufacturers will face the same cost issues but won't own their own gigafactory

joshuapants 11y ago

> I think what they should address is getting out the affordable Model 3 as fast to the market as they can. I agree, but I doubt this project took any manpower or resources away from the Model 3. If anything, it'll generate some extra cash to help with their R&D.

lyime 11y ago

Perhaps this is a side-effect of all of the R&D that's going into developing other cars and the drive-train for the Model 3?

veemjeem 11y ago

Anyone who is aware of the mythical man month should know that throwing more people on a project does not magically speed things up. Tesla probably has a core team that can execute faster if they had less people on the project. The other spare Tesla engineers are not going to twiddle their thumbs... they're going to make the existing Model S more appealing.

Havoc 11y ago

Its easier to expand downwards. e.g. Take Porsche...they have a bullet proof brand so they can sell a Cayenne football mom SUV fairly easily...just costs a bit of brand dilution. Doing the opposite (SUV to sportscar) would be a tough sell no matter how (objectively) good the sportscar is.

cglee 11y ago
> It's easier to expand downwards Lots of business research says this is not true, and in fact, the opposite. This is why VW is the world's most popular car maker, and not Porsche.
- DanBC 11y ago
  Aren't VW and Porsche part of the same company?
  - arethuza 11y ago
    VW is one of the car brands of VW Group - along with Seat, Skoda, Audi, Lamborghini, Bentley, Bugatti and Porsche... VW Group are masters of "badge engineering" - features and designs trickle down from the likes of Audi to VW and then to Seat and Skoda.
- yellowapple 11y ago
  IIRC, it's actually Toyota that's the world's most popular car maker (by number of cars sold, at 10.23 million last year), not VW; this has been the case for the last 3 years [0]. VW is very close behind, though, at 10.14 million (and GM is close behind that at 9.92 million). Not to say that your point is inaccurate (it's actually very accurate; the ability for companies like Toyota to drive down costs goes a long way toward mass adoption, and it's something that "luxury" makers like Porsche don't typically have the experience in). Tesla could very well be an exception here, since the big focus as of late is to ramp up manufacturing until Model-whatevers (and, in particular, their batteries) can flow out of factories at ludicrous speeds. [0]: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/industry/11360994/Toyota-stays-out-in-front-in-as-worlds-best-selling-auto-company.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/industry/113...

rjusher 11y ago

This is like saying that the Formula 1, exists for nothing. This is the way to test all the engineering efforts, it also leaves that knowledge in the company for future and further improvements, which directly influences the design and execution of the Model 3. But I have to agree that waiting for an affordable Tesla car is getting anoying, and they do need to create an income stream from a lower priced model for creating a sustainable company, and take advantage of the wow factor that still surrounds Tesla and evertything they make. But they have also innovated in other areas like the house batteries, which for me was a surprise (for me it seems odd that Tesla makes batteries for the average household) but they are generating other income streams, so it seems that Teslas agenda is not only the Model 3.

myth_buster 11y ago
As a fellow F1 buff, the upgrades takes years to roll down to production cars. And in software parlance, they shouldn't be focusing on the MVP at this point. they have also innovated in other areas like the house batteries That right and that may be more profitable and they may pivot and leave the car manufacturing to the incumbents.

ForHackernews 11y ago

The incumbents have already beaten them to the mass-market segment. The Nissan Leaf and the Chevy Volt are both affordable, competent (if unexciting) electric vehicles.