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I don't get how Netflix-of-$NICHE can be a long term business. It seems that once $NICHE-stream demonstrates sufficient demand, Netflix can simply license the s

I don't get how Netflix-of-$NICHE can be a long term business. It seems that once $NICHE-stream demonstrates sufficient demand, Netflix can simply license the same content and provide customers with a superset of the content that $NICHE-stream provides. It's also unclear to me that Netflix is even lacking in this specific niche. My ex-girlfriend loved browsing my netflix over a VPN because it had so much of her african american comedy. (Admittedly, what she - an African woman - considered a good selection might be different from what westerners consider a good selection.) In a few cases, e.g. Parables ($NICHE=devout christians), I can see how they offer something different - they deliberately exclude content (e.g., movies that offend christian sensibilities) that their members don't want. But that doesn't seem to apply here.

mkagenius 11y ago
> Netflix can simply license the same content and provide customers with a superset of the content that $NICHE-stream provides "can" is always a problem with big companies, they have so many other works to do they rarely get time. Thats where small companies can win some niche market and do a better job.
nostromo 11y ago
Netflix isn't so much like "cable" anymore. It's more like HBO. It's a channel; one of many. My family, for example, subscribes to Netflix, Hulu, HBO, and CrunchyRoll. I suspect in the future there will be more and more niche channels like Afrostream (and CrunchyRoll).
- freyr 11y ago
  > It's more like HBO. Except that it airs orders-of-magnitude more content than HBO from a variety of sources. It's something between cable and a channel. It's not HBO, it's Netflix.
dragonwriter 11y ago
> I don't get how Netflix-of-$NICHE can be a long term business. It seems that once $NICHE-stream demonstrates sufficient demand, Netflix can simply license the same content and provide customers with a superset of the content that $NICHE-stream provides. The marginal value of content with a strong, dedicated, but niche following to Netflix -- whose branding is mainstream and not targeted to that niche -- may be less than it is to a provider specialized in targeting that niche, which means that the licensing fee Netflix could afford to pay is less. Further, your argument presupposes that all streaming licenses are non-exclusive. That is, rather decidedly, not the case. If someone else secures an exclusive license, Netflix cannot license the same content and provide customers with a superset of what the niche provider offers. > It's also unclear to me that Netflix is even lacking in this specific niche. It probably isn't compared to any major provider that a consumer is going to find today. OTOH, it could be in the future, especially if a more targeted competitor exists that starts outbidding Netflix for exclusive licenses for content in that niche.
- jerf 11y ago
  "The marginal value of content with a strong, dedicated, but niche following to Netflix -- whose branding is mainstream and not targeted to that niche -- may be less than it is to a provider specialized in targeting that niche, which means that the licensing fee Netflix could afford to pay is less." Yes, I had yummyfajita's question and this does make sense... a "niche" (this is pretty big to be calling "niche" really, but let me discuss the generic case) could afford to charge a bit more of interested customers and focus that stream on somewhat more pricy licenses. Which, once again, just makes me think that Netflix is, if not "cutting itself off at the knees", at least hobbling itself with such a low flat-rate price. On the other hand it can hardly afford a complicated "full cable"-style offering, but some sort of middle ground may be something they're forced to do someday. Hulu, too, for that matter... even as a subscription service focused on TV it seems to me that the selection is limited by the fact the subscription price is just too low. In the meantime, as a consumer I have no trouble mixing a nice Netflix subscription for flat-rate stuff and mixing in per-show fees from Amazon, but it's still money Netflix seems to be leaving on the table.
lbostral 11y ago
Hey, Thank you for the feedback :) I am Ludovic, Cofounder and CTO of Afrostream. Netflix is big, that's sure, but as said in the thread, Netflix is like the big Three (ABC, NBC, CBS), and target the largest audience possible. And I am an avid client of Netflix too. They have an offer of African-American contents, even some African contents for sure. It's not complete. We have curated for one year some of the best and unseen African or African-descendant contents. Not only the Festival-sanctioned movies and series but also, the contents which are popular in local markets and that we are bringing to our customers. Seems to me that is more a segment than a niche, but I like to play a little with the words :) Our vision here is double : to propose a large selection of african, african-american movies and tv series, first in France (I am French), and french spoken countries, in Europe and Africa, first. Netflix is not yet in Africa, so we have some technical challenges there, but we will be basically the first. To propose the new african and african american positive characters to all : on that regards, our customers will not only be black Do you know Drama Fever : the core of the Drama Fever is Asian contents, they have 3,5 millions active users. 80% of these users are non-Asian. That's one of our goal : to let know that there is a diversity in movies, and that everybody could watch them with same pleasure
- personlurking 11y ago
  Hi, just a small question. Is "Intouchables" a film you would carry or does the majority of the cast need to be "African-American" (or Afro-French, Afro-Brazilian, etc etc)?
  - lbostral 11y ago
    Intouchables is definitely an Afrostream movie. We want to show some positive characters who are Afro-descendants and it's definitely a movie which shows that
    - rodgerd 11y ago
      Hors la loi needs to be on the menu, too 8)
- 11y ago
aric 11y ago
I can't think of any modern non-monopoly companies that have obtained global domination without a need to perpetually acquire niche competitors along the way. That's especially so as several companies (Netflix, Amazon, Apple, Google, and non-US players at large) vie for limited attention.
- lbostral 11y ago
  Do you know what means the word "Niche" in France : it's a house for dogs, literally, http://www.jardiland.com/mes-animaux/12431-chiens/12432-habitat-et-couchage/59023-niche-en-bois-petit-modele http://www.jardiland.com/mes-animaux/12431-chiens/12432-habi... We, Afrostream, have a bigger house to fill ;)
zitterbewegung 11y ago
I guess you haven't heard of crunchy roll.
- yummyfajitas 11y ago
  I haven't. But my same question applies - what happens when Netflix decides they want those profits and license all the anime?
  - jerf 11y ago
    "They have to raise prices or start offering mix&match packages" makes sense to me. Since they seem to resist this, it locks them out of these sorts of markets. Is that a good idea? Well, that's above my pay grade....
  - lbostral 11y ago
    They could try, but in the Afrostream case, could they catch up with the community we build. I mean, we have 72k facebook page fans, and a lot of their bought a one year subscription because they are ignored about their movie needs in first case. I am the first fans of my fans too. Let's face it : Netflix could do that, but they have one year to catch up, fight is on
    - cookiecaper 11y ago
      Netflix is huge. No offense, but I doubt they'd have to do much "catching up" with the userbase. Most of your subscribers are probably already Netflix subscribers and would be happy to cut their monthly expenditures by unsubscribing from your service once Netflix offers the same content. Your play would be original content and/or exclusive licensing that makes it so Netflix can't easily duplicate your service, at least not without years of waiting for licensing contracts to expire. This is the same dilemma Netflix faced as content producers started to ask why they can't just cut Netflix out, and Netflix solved it with compelling original content. It seems part of your argument is that your content is so niche, Netflix would rather spend licensing money on content that has broader appeal, which is fine, except that its totally dependent on Netflix not changing its strategy, and that's a bad basis for a sustainable business.
jimwalsh 11y ago
Right there with you. Just like all those people that wanted to start 'Pinterest for Men', when you could...just use Pinterest.
- lbostral 11y ago
  Hey since i use a lot pinterest too, and I am a man too, and French, here is my favourite board : https://fr.pinterest.com/ludobos/t-as-pas-du-sel-/ https://fr.pinterest.com/ludobos/t-as-pas-du-sel-/ We don't intend to be "Netflix for blacks" or "Netflix for African people only" too, that's a bizarre idea to me, in fact. We have some quality movies in our catalog, and we hope to make it discover to all of you people :)
  - jordanbrown 11y ago
    Same reason why the BET channel exists. Africans want their own netflix. I love this idea! Great stuff here guys.
solidpy 11y ago
FWIW there's a hole for the Netflix of News that needs to be filled.
rezistik 11y ago
If you consider Netflix more analogous to HBO[1]than to cable than this is similar to BET. I think individual channels will win out over cable style packages, though there might be room for an aggregator that offers discounts. I'd rather pay for HBO and Netflix over cable. To my knowledge the majority of cable channels are just content from a handful of producers divided up by "genre", since most people will have entire sections of unused channels that don't match their interest when paying for cable I think we'll move towards pick and choose — possibly really soon. [1]Which is their quoted mission, "become HBO faster than HBO can become us".
liotier 11y ago
> It seems that once $NICHE-stream demonstrates sufficient demand, Netflix can simply license the same content and provide customers with a superset of the content that $NICHE-stream provides. I would not be so quick to discount the difficulty of building a large number of commercial relationships in the long tail of African production. The mere time investment and tedium of dealing with producers who are not used to distribution channels beyond their local habits is a barrier to entry - and hence a valid strategic positioning.
- danieltillett 11y ago
  But does this not apply to the startup as well as the incumbent. There is nothing to suggest that it will cost a startup less than Netflix to negotiate all these contracts.
- lbostral 11y ago
  Absolutlely true, it takes time to have good relation with producers, and that's why we have worked for one full year to establish these relations.

mkagenius 11y ago

> Netflix can simply license the same content and provide customers with a superset of the content that $NICHE-stream provides "can" is always a problem with big companies, they have so many other works to do they rarely get time. Thats where small companies can win some niche market and do a better job.

nostromo 11y ago

Netflix isn't so much like "cable" anymore. It's more like HBO. It's a channel; one of many. My family, for example, subscribes to Netflix, Hulu, HBO, and CrunchyRoll. I suspect in the future there will be more and more niche channels like Afrostream (and CrunchyRoll).

freyr 11y ago
> It's more like HBO. Except that it airs orders-of-magnitude more content than HBO from a variety of sources. It's something between cable and a channel. It's not HBO, it's Netflix.

dragonwriter 11y ago

> I don't get how Netflix-of-$NICHE can be a long term business. It seems that once $NICHE-stream demonstrates sufficient demand, Netflix can simply license the same content and provide customers with a superset of the content that $NICHE-stream provides. The marginal value of content with a strong, dedicated, but niche following to Netflix -- whose branding is mainstream and not targeted to that niche -- may be less than it is to a provider specialized in targeting that niche, which means that the licensing fee Netflix could afford to pay is less. Further, your argument presupposes that all streaming licenses are non-exclusive. That is, rather decidedly, not the case. If someone else secures an exclusive license, Netflix cannot license the same content and provide customers with a superset of what the niche provider offers. > It's also unclear to me that Netflix is even lacking in this specific niche. It probably isn't compared to any major provider that a consumer is going to find today. OTOH, it could be in the future, especially if a more targeted competitor exists that starts outbidding Netflix for exclusive licenses for content in that niche.

jerf 11y ago
"The marginal value of content with a strong, dedicated, but niche following to Netflix -- whose branding is mainstream and not targeted to that niche -- may be less than it is to a provider specialized in targeting that niche, which means that the licensing fee Netflix could afford to pay is less." Yes, I had yummyfajita's question and this does make sense... a "niche" (this is pretty big to be calling "niche" really, but let me discuss the generic case) could afford to charge a bit more of interested customers and focus that stream on somewhat more pricy licenses. Which, once again, just makes me think that Netflix is, if not "cutting itself off at the knees", at least hobbling itself with such a low flat-rate price. On the other hand it can hardly afford a complicated "full cable"-style offering, but some sort of middle ground may be something they're forced to do someday. Hulu, too, for that matter... even as a subscription service focused on TV it seems to me that the selection is limited by the fact the subscription price is just too low. In the meantime, as a consumer I have no trouble mixing a nice Netflix subscription for flat-rate stuff and mixing in per-show fees from Amazon, but it's still money Netflix seems to be leaving on the table.

lbostral 11y ago

Hey, Thank you for the feedback :) I am Ludovic, Cofounder and CTO of Afrostream. Netflix is big, that's sure, but as said in the thread, Netflix is like the big Three (ABC, NBC, CBS), and target the largest audience possible. And I am an avid client of Netflix too. They have an offer of African-American contents, even some African contents for sure. It's not complete. We have curated for one year some of the best and unseen African or African-descendant contents. Not only the Festival-sanctioned movies and series but also, the contents which are popular in local markets and that we are bringing to our customers. Seems to me that is more a segment than a niche, but I like to play a little with the words :) Our vision here is double : to propose a large selection of african, african-american movies and tv series, first in France (I am French), and french spoken countries, in Europe and Africa, first. Netflix is not yet in Africa, so we have some technical challenges there, but we will be basically the first. To propose the new african and african american positive characters to all : on that regards, our customers will not only be black Do you know Drama Fever : the core of the Drama Fever is Asian contents, they have 3,5 millions active users. 80% of these users are non-Asian. That's one of our goal : to let know that there is a diversity in movies, and that everybody could watch them with same pleasure

personlurking 11y ago
Hi, just a small question. Is "Intouchables" a film you would carry or does the majority of the cast need to be "African-American" (or Afro-French, Afro-Brazilian, etc etc)?
- lbostral 11y ago
  Intouchables is definitely an Afrostream movie. We want to show some positive characters who are Afro-descendants and it's definitely a movie which shows that
  - rodgerd 11y ago
    Hors la loi needs to be on the menu, too 8)
11y ago

aric 11y ago

I can't think of any modern non-monopoly companies that have obtained global domination without a need to perpetually acquire niche competitors along the way. That's especially so as several companies (Netflix, Amazon, Apple, Google, and non-US players at large) vie for limited attention.

lbostral 11y ago
Do you know what means the word "Niche" in France : it's a house for dogs, literally, http://www.jardiland.com/mes-animaux/12431-chiens/12432-habitat-et-couchage/59023-niche-en-bois-petit-modele http://www.jardiland.com/mes-animaux/12431-chiens/12432-habi... We, Afrostream, have a bigger house to fill ;)

zitterbewegung 11y ago

I guess you haven't heard of crunchy roll.

yummyfajitas 11y ago
I haven't. But my same question applies - what happens when Netflix decides they want those profits and license all the anime?
- jerf 11y ago
  "They have to raise prices or start offering mix&match packages" makes sense to me. Since they seem to resist this, it locks them out of these sorts of markets. Is that a good idea? Well, that's above my pay grade....
- lbostral 11y ago
  They could try, but in the Afrostream case, could they catch up with the community we build. I mean, we have 72k facebook page fans, and a lot of their bought a one year subscription because they are ignored about their movie needs in first case. I am the first fans of my fans too. Let's face it : Netflix could do that, but they have one year to catch up, fight is on
  - cookiecaper 11y ago
    Netflix is huge. No offense, but I doubt they'd have to do much "catching up" with the userbase. Most of your subscribers are probably already Netflix subscribers and would be happy to cut their monthly expenditures by unsubscribing from your service once Netflix offers the same content. Your play would be original content and/or exclusive licensing that makes it so Netflix can't easily duplicate your service, at least not without years of waiting for licensing contracts to expire. This is the same dilemma Netflix faced as content producers started to ask why they can't just cut Netflix out, and Netflix solved it with compelling original content. It seems part of your argument is that your content is so niche, Netflix would rather spend licensing money on content that has broader appeal, which is fine, except that its totally dependent on Netflix not changing its strategy, and that's a bad basis for a sustainable business.

jimwalsh 11y ago

Right there with you. Just like all those people that wanted to start 'Pinterest for Men', when you could...just use Pinterest.

lbostral 11y ago
Hey since i use a lot pinterest too, and I am a man too, and French, here is my favourite board : https://fr.pinterest.com/ludobos/t-as-pas-du-sel-/ https://fr.pinterest.com/ludobos/t-as-pas-du-sel-/ We don't intend to be "Netflix for blacks" or "Netflix for African people only" too, that's a bizarre idea to me, in fact. We have some quality movies in our catalog, and we hope to make it discover to all of you people :)
- jordanbrown 11y ago
  Same reason why the BET channel exists. Africans want their own netflix. I love this idea! Great stuff here guys.

solidpy 11y ago

FWIW there's a hole for the Netflix of News that needs to be filled.

rezistik 11y ago

If you consider Netflix more analogous to HBO[1]than to cable than this is similar to BET. I think individual channels will win out over cable style packages, though there might be room for an aggregator that offers discounts. I'd rather pay for HBO and Netflix over cable. To my knowledge the majority of cable channels are just content from a handful of producers divided up by "genre", since most people will have entire sections of unused channels that don't match their interest when paying for cable I think we'll move towards pick and choose — possibly really soon. [1]Which is their quoted mission, "become HBO faster than HBO can become us".

liotier 11y ago

> It seems that once $NICHE-stream demonstrates sufficient demand, Netflix can simply license the same content and provide customers with a superset of the content that $NICHE-stream provides. I would not be so quick to discount the difficulty of building a large number of commercial relationships in the long tail of African production. The mere time investment and tedium of dealing with producers who are not used to distribution channels beyond their local habits is a barrier to entry - and hence a valid strategic positioning.

danieltillett 11y ago
But does this not apply to the startup as well as the incumbent. There is nothing to suggest that it will cost a startup less than Netflix to negotiate all these contracts.
lbostral 11y ago
Absolutlely true, it takes time to have good relation with producers, and that's why we have worked for one full year to establish these relations.