6 ms·

Apple Countersues Nokia

13 points by fiaz 17y ago

illumen 17y ago
This is a really strange press release from Apple... to me it makes Apple sound bad. First they make the Nokia quote stand out as the most, over their other points. Then Apple uses the word 'reinvent' in the first line of the third paragraph. This is exactly what Nokia are claiming they've done. Let us look at all the things they've reinvented: * osx, unix clone. * ipod, mp3 player clone. * itunes, winamp clone. * iphone, smart phone clone. * ilife programs, each are a clone of many existing programs (movie editor, photo editor, sound editor, web page maker etc). They do a lot of credit claiming for things they didn't invent. If you just listened to Apple PR, you'd expect they invented all of those things. It is really strange that they are proving what Nokia has said about them in their own press release!
- jws 17y ago
  The third paragraph is boiler plate applied to all press releases. Granted, in this case it is longer than the press release. The actual press release, the first two sentences, is almost certainly crafted to match the Nokia press quotes from their suit: "The basic principle in the mobile industry is that those companies who contribute in technology development to establish standards create intellectual property, which others then need to compensate for," said Ilkka Rahnasto, Nokia's Vice President of legal and intellectual property, in a statement. "Apple is also expected to follow this principle. By refusing to agree [upon] appropriate terms for Nokia's intellectual property, Apple is attempting to get a free ride on the back of Nokia's innovation." Assuming each side can make a few patents stick then they are probably headed for a cross licensing deal.
  - roc 17y ago
    Actually, I think a cross-licensing deal is precisely what Apple is trying to avoid. There's no discernible reason for Apple to have not licensed Nokia's patents in the beginning, given what other licensees pay. So it seems likely that Nokia was looking for terms above and beyond what they ask from other licensees. Which, in this case, would almost certainly have included licenses to use some Apple-patented technologies.
    - jws 17y ago
      Having seen further Apple statements today I agree with you. Nokia is looking for a way in to the Apple patents.
- roc 17y ago
  'Reinvent' is mostly irrelevant in a patent infringement case. If your invention includes all the elements of a claim in a granted patent, even if you came up with it in isolation, you're still infringing on that patent. Saying you came up with it in parallel only protects you from treble damages from willful infringement. And patent claims (while flawed works of man and deliberately twisted works of lawyers) are far more precise and narrow than 'unix clone' or 'mp3 player'. Infringing a patent requires something far closer to the original than an iPod to a Nomad or iLife to Office.
- j_b_f 17y ago
  It's just a press release. Marketing != reality.
yumraj 17y ago
It looks like Apple's patent's are primarily UI/software related, which in the worst case are relatively easy to workaround. Nokia's patent's on the other hand are related to wireless technology which are not easily workaround-able, so IMO if this goes towards settlement/cross-licensing Nokia has a much stronger hand.
chanux 17y ago
“Other companies must compete with us by inventing their own technologies, not just by stealing ours,” said Bruce Sewell, Apple’s General Counsel and senior vice president. And his boss once said "Good artists copy. Great artists steal"
- csbrooks 17y ago
  Did he steal that quote from Picasso?
  - sroerick 17y ago
    Who clearly stole it himself.
yason 17y ago
I don't know what the Nokia's patents are but what I know is that about the time a company begins to sue other companies means they've fallen behind on the market. And this has indeed been true for Nokia for some time. Had Gandhi lived in the late 20th centry, his quote would probably be: "First they ignore you. Then they laugh at you. Then they sue you. Then you win."
- omouse 17y ago
  They should still be compensated for the research they did. When Apple sues someone, they're still a good guy, but when another company does it, it's "ohhh they must be losing market share!!!!!"
- yumraj 17y ago
  So according to your logic Apple sued Psystar because Apple was falling behind in the market. I don't think so.. Companies sue when they think that they have to defend their IP. (I'm not talking about patent trolls, I'm talking about genuine companies with real IP).

13 points by fiaz 17y ago

This is a really strange press release from Apple... to me it makes Apple sound bad. First they make the Nokia quote stand out as the most, over their other points. Then Apple uses the word 'reinvent' in the first line of the third paragraph. This is exactly what Nokia are claiming they've done. Let us look at all the things they've reinvented: * osx, unix clone. * ipod, mp3 player clone. * itunes, winamp clone. * iphone, smart phone clone. * ilife programs, each are a clone of many existing programs (movie editor, photo editor, sound editor, web page maker etc). They do a lot of credit claiming for things they didn't invent. If you just listened to Apple PR, you'd expect they invented all of those things. It is really strange that they are proving what Nokia has said about them in their own press release!

jws 17y ago
The third paragraph is boiler plate applied to all press releases. Granted, in this case it is longer than the press release. The actual press release, the first two sentences, is almost certainly crafted to match the Nokia press quotes from their suit: "The basic principle in the mobile industry is that those companies who contribute in technology development to establish standards create intellectual property, which others then need to compensate for," said Ilkka Rahnasto, Nokia's Vice President of legal and intellectual property, in a statement. "Apple is also expected to follow this principle. By refusing to agree [upon] appropriate terms for Nokia's intellectual property, Apple is attempting to get a free ride on the back of Nokia's innovation." Assuming each side can make a few patents stick then they are probably headed for a cross licensing deal.
- roc 17y ago
  Actually, I think a cross-licensing deal is precisely what Apple is trying to avoid. There's no discernible reason for Apple to have not licensed Nokia's patents in the beginning, given what other licensees pay. So it seems likely that Nokia was looking for terms above and beyond what they ask from other licensees. Which, in this case, would almost certainly have included licenses to use some Apple-patented technologies.
  - jws 17y ago
    Having seen further Apple statements today I agree with you. Nokia is looking for a way in to the Apple patents.
roc 17y ago
'Reinvent' is mostly irrelevant in a patent infringement case. If your invention includes all the elements of a claim in a granted patent, even if you came up with it in isolation, you're still infringing on that patent. Saying you came up with it in parallel only protects you from treble damages from willful infringement. And patent claims (while flawed works of man and deliberately twisted works of lawyers) are far more precise and narrow than 'unix clone' or 'mp3 player'. Infringing a patent requires something far closer to the original than an iPod to a Nomad or iLife to Office.
j_b_f 17y ago
It's just a press release. Marketing != reality.

yumraj 17y ago

It looks like Apple's patent's are primarily UI/software related, which in the worst case are relatively easy to workaround. Nokia's patent's on the other hand are related to wireless technology which are not easily workaround-able, so IMO if this goes towards settlement/cross-licensing Nokia has a much stronger hand.

chanux 17y ago

“Other companies must compete with us by inventing their own technologies, not just by stealing ours,” said Bruce Sewell, Apple’s General Counsel and senior vice president. And his boss once said "Good artists copy. Great artists steal"

csbrooks 17y ago
Did he steal that quote from Picasso?
- sroerick 17y ago
  Who clearly stole it himself.

yason 17y ago

I don't know what the Nokia's patents are but what I know is that about the time a company begins to sue other companies means they've fallen behind on the market. And this has indeed been true for Nokia for some time. Had Gandhi lived in the late 20th centry, his quote would probably be: "First they ignore you. Then they laugh at you. Then they sue you. Then you win."

omouse 17y ago
They should still be compensated for the research they did. When Apple sues someone, they're still a good guy, but when another company does it, it's "ohhh they must be losing market share!!!!!"
yumraj 17y ago
So according to your logic Apple sued Psystar because Apple was falling behind in the market. I don't think so.. Companies sue when they think that they have to defend their IP. (I'm not talking about patent trolls, I'm talking about genuine companies with real IP).