6 ms·

You're using the wrong definition for man to qualify your visual irritant. Man in this case means "human, person". If I say this will help all mankind, I'm not

You're using the wrong definition for man to qualify your visual irritant. Man in this case means "human, person". If I say this will help all mankind, I'm not excluding a gender. You simply misunderstood.

mc32 11y ago
They can use worker hours, labor hours, etc. However, it's true that criticizing man hours is not understanding language or etymology. We could go on with things like cowboy and cowgirl. Why do we call adults boys and girls? On the other hand, they are just terms. Just like husband really isn't interpreted as "house bound". Bound, tied to a house, i.e. not free. But... people being people we see others getting in trouble when son misunderstand etymology and meaning like when people use synonyms for frugality and people find offense. There will doubtlessly be other words which fall into disfavor for looking or sounding too much like a scoundrel word.
- ianstallings 11y ago
  I agree completely. Language is, although defined, still up for interpretation and can be very vague. That's why we have to communicate more when there is some misunderstanding. And also why some of us spend an inordinate amount of time pruning our writing and speech. I hate to lose people just due to miscommunication. I don't want to offend anyone, because then my message is never sent. I get - Protocol error, do not resend!
chrisdevereux 11y ago
Language is about more than sematics...
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- ianstallings 11y ago
  Sorry I wasn't trying to be flippant or dismissive. I really am trying to point out a simple miscommunication. If the word truly offended someone I worked with I would substitute it for something else. I don't even like the term to be honest. Never have.
  - chrisdevereux 11y ago
    Oh, I wasn't really objecting to the content of what you said there... It's open for debate whether or not there's a better expression than "man hours". I just wanted to point out that said debate would hinge on more than a narrowly semantic question about the meaning of "man".
tajen 11y ago
I'm more than upset that we can't treat a topic seriously without someone sidetracking on an personal offense for "mandays". The OP didn't even suggest another word, nor does the industry have another established gender-neutral word. Besides, women programmers are often quickly promoted, so yes there's only men left at the bottom level.
- DanBC 11y ago
  > does the industry have another established gender-neutral word. Full time employee hours. https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=%22fte+hours%22&rlz=1CDGOYI_enGB626GB626&oq=%22fte+hours%22&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l3&sourceid=chrome-mobile&espv=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=en-GB https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=%22fte+hours%22&rlz=1CDGOY...
  - pc86 11y ago
    Which risks "othering" the part-time employees and contractors among us.
  - s73v3r 11y ago
    What about contractors? Interns?
    - DanBC 11y ago
      Did you see how many of the links in that search talk about converting part time hours to FTE? That's what the "equivalent" part means.
ylg 11y ago
Yes, "man" in this context is unequivocally gender-neutral. Hence my point that it's a visual irritant due to a very specific situation rather than saying it was an incorrect usage or a discriminatory term.
- ianstallings 11y ago
  Then I think we agree. Because I really dislike the phrase "man hours".

mc32 11y ago

They can use worker hours, labor hours, etc. However, it's true that criticizing man hours is not understanding language or etymology. We could go on with things like cowboy and cowgirl. Why do we call adults boys and girls? On the other hand, they are just terms. Just like husband really isn't interpreted as "house bound". Bound, tied to a house, i.e. not free. But... people being people we see others getting in trouble when son misunderstand etymology and meaning like when people use synonyms for frugality and people find offense. There will doubtlessly be other words which fall into disfavor for looking or sounding too much like a scoundrel word.

ianstallings 11y ago
I agree completely. Language is, although defined, still up for interpretation and can be very vague. That's why we have to communicate more when there is some misunderstanding. And also why some of us spend an inordinate amount of time pruning our writing and speech. I hate to lose people just due to miscommunication. I don't want to offend anyone, because then my message is never sent. I get - Protocol error, do not resend!

chrisdevereux 11y ago

Language is about more than sematics...

deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
ianstallings 11y ago
Sorry I wasn't trying to be flippant or dismissive. I really am trying to point out a simple miscommunication. If the word truly offended someone I worked with I would substitute it for something else. I don't even like the term to be honest. Never have.
- chrisdevereux 11y ago
  Oh, I wasn't really objecting to the content of what you said there... It's open for debate whether or not there's a better expression than "man hours". I just wanted to point out that said debate would hinge on more than a narrowly semantic question about the meaning of "man".

tajen 11y ago

I'm more than upset that we can't treat a topic seriously without someone sidetracking on an personal offense for "mandays". The OP didn't even suggest another word, nor does the industry have another established gender-neutral word. Besides, women programmers are often quickly promoted, so yes there's only men left at the bottom level.

DanBC 11y ago
> does the industry have another established gender-neutral word. Full time employee hours. https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=%22fte+hours%22&rlz=1CDGOYI_enGB626GB626&oq=%22fte+hours%22&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l3&sourceid=chrome-mobile&espv=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=en-GB https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=%22fte+hours%22&rlz=1CDGOY...
- pc86 11y ago
  Which risks "othering" the part-time employees and contractors among us.
- s73v3r 11y ago
  What about contractors? Interns?
  - DanBC 11y ago
    Did you see how many of the links in that search talk about converting part time hours to FTE? That's what the "equivalent" part means.

ylg 11y ago

Yes, "man" in this context is unequivocally gender-neutral. Hence my point that it's a visual irritant due to a very specific situation rather than saying it was an incorrect usage or a discriminatory term.

ianstallings 11y ago
Then I think we agree. Because I really dislike the phrase "man hours".