4 ms·

User _fs makes the excellent point that The only fear of GMOs that I have is knowing that certain crops have been genetically modified to not die when they are

by cb18 11y ago

User _fs makes the excellent point that The only fear of GMOs that I have is knowing that certain crops have been genetically modified to not die when they are caked in pesticide. Good for plants, bad for me, as I have not been genetically modified to eat crops with layers of pesticide on them. Strangely, this post was downvoted. Even more strangely a response to _fs's post by goodreter, that simply provided support in the form of a link for _fs's point about secondary negative effects was quickly downvoted. As _fs alludes to, even if GMO crops have no negative effects on organisms that eat them, there are a lot of potential negative externalities that need to be considered, monocultures in food production, the unprecedented control of a food supply that patented genomes give to individual corporations, unforeseen interaction between a gmo and the surrounding ecological systems, etc. etc. With _fs's and goodreter's posts, both of which are perfectly reasonable, being downvoted as well as the other posts downvoted in this thread(which all seem to share the characteristic of being somewhat skeptical of gmo) I'm not entirely sure there aren't monsanto shills hovering on this thread.

pbreit 11y ago
Possibly because the more common situation is that a crop is GMd to not need pesticides. Like the papaya in the article.
- cb18 11y ago
  "more common situation is that a crop is GMd to not need pesticides" Is that based on research you've done, or are you just going with your gut? This[0] article explains how "Roundup-ready corn and soybeans"(roundup is an herbicide) has caused the near disappearance of milkweed and because of that the near disappearance of Monarch Butterflies which need the milkweed to survive. What does "roundup ready" mean? It means the corn and soybeans can tolerate the herbicide, so the fields are coated with it indiscriminately. I'd wager that acres of corn and soybeans planted exceeds acres of papaya by a fair bit. This[1] well-sourced[2] article describes "Herbicide and Insecticide Use on GMO Crops" as "Skyrocketing." This[3] article describes how corn crops that are gm'd to be resistant to pests have actually become susceptible to pests because "nature will find a way." This has resulted in even more use and need of pesticides for these crops, a vicious cycle. By the way the crops that are modified to "not need pesticides," still actually need and use pesticides. The pesticides are just incorporated at the gene level, instead of after they've already been planted. For example, the use of systemic insecticides, which coat GMO corn and soy seeds and are incorporated and expressed inside the entire plant, has skyrocketed in the last ten years. This includes use of neonicotinoids (neonics) which are extremely powerful neurotoxins that contaminate our food and water and destroy non-target pollinators and wildlife such as bees, butterflies and birds. In fact, two neonics in widespread use in the U.S. are currently banned in the EU because of their suspected link to Colony Collapse Disorder in bees.[1][4] And the roundup ready type gm is one of the main things I've heard touted about gm over the years, I'm not sure where you're getting your information. Over 99% of GMO acreage is engineered by chemical companies to tolerate heavy herbicide (glyphosate) use and/or produce insecticide (Bt) in every cell of every plant over the entire growing season. The result is massive selection pressure that has rapidly created pest resistance--the opposite of integrated pest management where judicious use of chemical controls is applied only as necessary. Predictably, just like overuse of antibiotics in confined factory farms has created resistant "supergerms" leading to animals being overdosed with ever more powerful antibiotics, we now have huge swaths of the country infested with "superweeds" and "superbugs" resistant to glyphosate and Bt, meaning more volume of more toxic pesticides are being applied.[1] [0]http://blog.nature.org/science/2013/04/04/the-monarch-butterfly-decline-and-what-you-can-do-about-it/ http://blog.nature.org/science/2013/04/04/the-monarch-butter... [1]http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-bronner/herbicide-insecticide-use_b_5791304.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-bronner/herbicide-insect... [2]http://static.ewg.org/agmag/pdfs/pesticide_use_on_genetically_engineered_crops.pdf http://static.ewg.org/agmag/pdfs/pesticide_use_on_geneticall... [3]http://www.wsj.com/articles/limits-sought-on-gmo-corn-as-pest-resistance-grows-1425587078 http://www.wsj.com/articles/limits-sought-on-gmo-corn-as-pes... [4]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neonicotinoid#Toxicity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neonicotinoid#Toxicity
  - joaomsa 11y ago
    The article's point is that generalizations about GMd foods are ignorant and each case needs to be evaluated on it's own merits and dangers. It's very well sourced (though it does occasionally fall prey into cherry picking) to show cases of both positive impacts like GMO Papaya and Golden Rice and negative like increased RoundUp usage. Would be great if public perception adopted this skepticism and questioned practices that aren't discussed for labeling like widespread Bt spray usage vs the GMO included one.

by cb18 11y ago

pbreit 11y ago

Possibly because the more common situation is that a crop is GMd to not need pesticides. Like the papaya in the article.

cb18 11y ago
"more common situation is that a crop is GMd to not need pesticides" Is that based on research you've done, or are you just going with your gut? This[0] article explains how "Roundup-ready corn and soybeans"(roundup is an herbicide) has caused the near disappearance of milkweed and because of that the near disappearance of Monarch Butterflies which need the milkweed to survive. What does "roundup ready" mean? It means the corn and soybeans can tolerate the herbicide, so the fields are coated with it indiscriminately. I'd wager that acres of corn and soybeans planted exceeds acres of papaya by a fair bit. This[1] well-sourced[2] article describes "Herbicide and Insecticide Use on GMO Crops" as "Skyrocketing." This[3] article describes how corn crops that are gm'd to be resistant to pests have actually become susceptible to pests because "nature will find a way." This has resulted in even more use and need of pesticides for these crops, a vicious cycle. By the way the crops that are modified to "not need pesticides," still actually need and use pesticides. The pesticides are just incorporated at the gene level, instead of after they've already been planted. For example, the use of systemic insecticides, which coat GMO corn and soy seeds and are incorporated and expressed inside the entire plant, has skyrocketed in the last ten years. This includes use of neonicotinoids (neonics) which are extremely powerful neurotoxins that contaminate our food and water and destroy non-target pollinators and wildlife such as bees, butterflies and birds. In fact, two neonics in widespread use in the U.S. are currently banned in the EU because of their suspected link to Colony Collapse Disorder in bees.[1][4] And the roundup ready type gm is one of the main things I've heard touted about gm over the years, I'm not sure where you're getting your information. Over 99% of GMO acreage is engineered by chemical companies to tolerate heavy herbicide (glyphosate) use and/or produce insecticide (Bt) in every cell of every plant over the entire growing season. The result is massive selection pressure that has rapidly created pest resistance--the opposite of integrated pest management where judicious use of chemical controls is applied only as necessary. Predictably, just like overuse of antibiotics in confined factory farms has created resistant "supergerms" leading to animals being overdosed with ever more powerful antibiotics, we now have huge swaths of the country infested with "superweeds" and "superbugs" resistant to glyphosate and Bt, meaning more volume of more toxic pesticides are being applied.[1] [0]http://blog.nature.org/science/2013/04/04/the-monarch-butterfly-decline-and-what-you-can-do-about-it/ http://blog.nature.org/science/2013/04/04/the-monarch-butter... [1]http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-bronner/herbicide-insecticide-use_b_5791304.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-bronner/herbicide-insect... [2]http://static.ewg.org/agmag/pdfs/pesticide_use_on_genetically_engineered_crops.pdf http://static.ewg.org/agmag/pdfs/pesticide_use_on_geneticall... [3]http://www.wsj.com/articles/limits-sought-on-gmo-corn-as-pest-resistance-grows-1425587078 http://www.wsj.com/articles/limits-sought-on-gmo-corn-as-pes... [4]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neonicotinoid#Toxicity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neonicotinoid#Toxicity
- joaomsa 11y ago
  The article's point is that generalizations about GMd foods are ignorant and each case needs to be evaluated on it's own merits and dangers. It's very well sourced (though it does occasionally fall prey into cherry picking) to show cases of both positive impacts like GMO Papaya and Golden Rice and negative like increased RoundUp usage. Would be great if public perception adopted this skepticism and questioned practices that aren't discussed for labeling like widespread Bt spray usage vs the GMO included one.