10 ms·

Driving for Uber as an Iraq War Vet

146 points by sloanesturz 11y ago

methodover 11y ago
Wow, what an amazing read. That guy is a great writer. It almost sounded like the narration of film noir. Anyways, I had no idea that Uber drivers made so much money. $40-$50 an hour! That's incredible. I make the low end of that working as the tech lead of a ~15-person tech startup. I bet that car maintenance takes a big chunk out of his pay but still. My first reaction to this piece was "what the fuck are you whining about? You make more than most people, and even more than me and my job is way harder than yours!" Then again, I totally empathize with his alienation from his own job. It's hard, spending the precious hours of your short life on things other than what you're really passionate about. It sucks that our society rewards being a taxi driver more than creative things -- like this guy's amazing writing. I don't know what to do about that, and I feel his pain there.
- saurik 11y ago
  "If it makes you feel any better", Google seems to be pretty close to making driving a taxi worth almost nothing.
  - josephagoss 11y ago
    How so? Do you mean driverless cars or something else they are working on?
    - creativityhurts 11y ago
      He might refer to self-driving cars. Also relevant https://www.yahoo.com/autos/s/uber-ceo-tesla-sell-half-million-autonomous-electric-110000053.html https://www.yahoo.com/autos/s/uber-ceo-tesla-sell-half-milli...
- ild 11y ago
  > $40-$50 an hour No. Especially outside Bay Area. More like $10-$20/h.
- pkorzeniewski 11y ago
  It's hard, spending the precious hours of your short life on things other than what you're really passionate about Isn't this true for the vast majority? Most people take jobs not because they're passionate about them, but because they need money to pay bills and buy stuff - simple as that. Some earn more, some earn less, but at the end of the day almost everyone would like to do something else. Even in IT, where wages are high and work is comfortable, I doubt most are passionate about their work - it's a different thing hacking some fun app or game in your spare time and working on some monstrous enterprise software, where you're just a tiny cog doing what you're told to do.
  - a_shane 11y ago
    I was actually going to reply to that point, as well. This guy, despite his somewhat unique circumstances (and superb writing) isn't really alone in that he has to do what he needs, however unfulfilling, to get by.
  - ethbro 11y ago
    I think about the people who work in fast food chains. Their entire working lives circumscribed by a binder written by people so many levels above them that thinking about it risks vertigo. Decrease labor costs. Increase productivity per worker. Decrease food prices / increase profit with savings. *Footnote: Make working just attractive enough so that people will apply in sufficient numbers I think about what kind of life that would be every time I see someone post-teen working in a BurgChickeBoxMcKingBell. Try going through one sometime out in the country, when you're far enough away from a city that there aren't any other jobs. See who's being employed there. .... What a disgusting system we've created. Writer is right about the tech haves and the have-nots. PS: BasicIncome
    - lanaius 11y ago
      When I was a kid, I bought a box of thumb tacks at the dollar store. When I got home and was using them, I suddenly got very sad: I started thinking about the people who assembled the tacks and put them in the boxes. Being naïve at that age I assumed everything was done manually, and I just felt awful about people who spent all day doing this just to sell them at the dollar store - they must be paid pennies!
- VLM 11y ago
  Its easy to make $45/hr 9pm-3am on the weekend. The problem is confusing 6 hours per week with 40 hours per week. This has occasionally been an issue for me with contracting... hey I got a gig 8 hours/one day per week. Um, ok, great hourly pay, but how am I supposed to feed my family working only 8 hours/week, even if the hourly pay is 2x what I get now? That's why writing is a good second gig for the article author. No way to make $45 between 10am and 11am Sunday, well, go write something, its not like you're losing fares...
- hiddencost 11y ago
  But you cost your employer almost twice that. Benefits, health care, insurance, supplies, furniture, equipment etc.
- hackuser 11y ago
  > I had no idea that Uber drivers made so much money. $40-$50 an hour He said he didn't make that much.
  - methodover 11y ago
    The article said... > According to my weekly reports from Uber emails, I average anywhere from $40 to $50 an hour doing this shit—by my count, it's less. You know, when I read that I thought he meant "it's less" in the sense of "It's not worth that much to me" rather than literally, "Uber's average wage statistics are incorrect." But I'm probably totally wrong. If I'm wrong, it's weird that Uber's calculations are wrong there. I wonder if they're like, not calculating time spent waiting for a fare?
    - yazaddaruvala 11y ago
      From what I understand its revenue, not profit. Uber just adds up the transactions that you've been a part of. Then they take their 25% fee, then the driver has to subtract whatever they paid in insurance + gas + tolls + maintenance + amenities (food or water). For most (who can't buy a car outright) they have to pay their car loan/lease payments. Then to really calculate "take home pay", like the rest of us, you have to subtract taxes. Another 25%-35% depending on state+federal tax brackets. P.S. Hopefully they do their taxes correctly. I imagine if you did it as a "small business" you could subtract all of your expenses first and even subtract depreciation of your capital (depreciation of your car), then do your taxes on the far smaller amount rather than on $50 per hour gross income. Honestly, if they weren't curious enough to educate themselves about their taxes, I don't even know how it would be profitable.
- tosseraccount 11y ago
  society rewards being a taxi driver more than creative things The best creative people make a lot more than the best tax drivers. "Society" does reward them.
yundlepasst 11y ago
"Stuck on my dashboard where everyone can see is my Combat Infantry Badge... supposed to be a conversation starter" "one guy went on a monologue—to impress me, I guess—about a distant relative of his who was in the Special Forces" Bit of a hypocrite. Who cares that he was in the military? In the UK people serve in the military if they want to serve in the military, and they don't expect the world to thank them for it 24/7 for the rest of their lives.
EugeneOZ 11y ago
When people call taxi they don't hope to see interesting human to talk with, they need a car to move them from point A to point B. This driver expects his clients to be wondered about him or his life, when they don't expect it and often don't want to spend their time to be somebody's psychotherapist. It's sad he is so lonely, but taxi is not that place which should fix it - maybe dating sites.
- illumen 11y ago
  Maybe a professional therapist plus friends and family would be better than randoms.
  - test1235 11y ago
    Are therapists expensive?
    - illumen 11y ago
      Hopefully they are covered by the medical system.
      - aaronem 11y ago
        Did you not read the part about what it's like to try to get benefits through the VA? World War II was the last time the United States gave anything like a genuine damn about their expended soldiers; they've never given less of one than they do today. Why else would so many have no better option than to work for a company which plainly regards its human drivers as nothing more or less than an eminently disposable means of bootstrapping to the point where robot cars are practicable?
      - protomyth 11y ago
        from the VA? nope, you get more drugs than is wise after you wait over a year for the paperwork. At this point, closing all the VA centers and paying for the same medical insurance that Congress gets for our veterans would be cheaper and better. A lot of the problems is the US's approach (or lack thereof) to Mental Health issues. We attack symbols instead of dealing with the actual problem that we have some folks with broken brains. Some of those folks are veterans and the US needs to deal with the breakage. The current system is a disaster. Lord help our Native American Veterans who not only get to deal with the VA but also IHS.
pkkim 11y ago
"Many who work in tech are living their lives as if it's the carefree Roaring 20s, while I'm more or less stuck in the Great Depression." Of course, the roaring twenties were themselves times of relative inequality, and that name only describes the excitement, culture, and affluence of the urban rich of the era. The author seems to be describing the modern day euphoria over the power of the tech industry to make a new world as similarly one-sided.
- aaronem 11y ago
  Isn't it? No one in Silicon Valley gives a damn about anyone outside it, or indeed outside their own social and professional circles. There's nothing intrinsically unusual about this, of course, but it lends a certain sardonic amusement to an outsider's perspective on the "changing the world" rhetoric which SV has taken beyond mere cliché to what may be a new and previously unimagined realm of banality.
  - nmeofthestate 11y ago
    >No one in Silicon Valley gives a damn about anyone outside it Seems unlikely.
  - onedev 11y ago
    I certainly care about people outside of SV. I'm in SV.
mitkok 11y ago
Am I the only one that read that article as "I went to Iraq to murder people and now when I'm back I' so lonely" ?
- deleted 11y ago
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  - evook 11y ago
    Probably you should not enlist in the US Military and complain afterwards about lost opportunities and PTSD because of doing pointless crimes for an overall pointless war. Thanks for your service.... hmm not really.
rawTruthHurts 11y ago
Well, c'est la vie.
MattyRad 11y ago
What a great piece that describes the new type existential despair seen in the modern world. How are we so isolated in spite of connectedness? The question of burning time, for money, for... what? How does one come to serve the haves who happened into success and wealth and prestige? Still though, he makes more money than I do working as a computer engineer, which is a small consolation. Anyway, outstanding read and I sincerely hope things improve for him and vets everywhere.
scotty79 11y ago
> Most of the time I'm completely invisible to the people I drive. Perhaps we're all conditioned not to speak to the hired help. ... or to strangers.
- aaronem 11y ago
  Sure, because we're all six years old and walking home from school.
  - deleted 11y ago
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  - louhike 11y ago
    What is the use of this comment? To ridicule him? It looks like (seeing your other comments) you are just angry because people are criticizing the driver justifying why they would not talk to him. Maybe they are in the wrong, but you are too agressive and your message will not get through.
brc 11y ago
>treating me like a machine while my thoughts drift The simple truth is that for many people! they hire someone to do a job and would rather not talk while that job is done.
hellofunk 11y ago
I find this mildly frightening, though hopefully that is just my imagination getting the best of me. A combat soldier who takes strangers around town all day, while thinking how much he identifies with the main character of Taxi Driver, a recluse vigilante who also kept a written diary of his thoughts before attempting to assassinate a politician.
- surge 11y ago
  He identifies with the character, but the movie is an exaggeration or taking the mindset to an extreme. Many people identify with the main character from Fight Club, and quote it often, but none of us are developing split personality disorders or fighting with ourselves in a bar parking lot or starting an underground fighting club. What should frighten you is that being an Uber driver is the best employment option for a war veteran with PTSD. This guy has his writing, and I'd hire him on the spot just reading that article, but not all vets have that even.
  - hellofunk 11y ago
    Actually, what frightens me even more is that anyone in the world should ever be a veteran of a war.
Alex999 11y ago
Most of the people are glued to their phones while ridding a cab...its a Mad Mad World!!
aaronem 11y ago
A robot could do my fucking job. In a few years, one will. God bless Silicon Valley.
- omouse 11y ago
  And hopefully this talk of a basic income will be the most sensible solution instead of forcing veterans and people with low incomes to beg and wait for any sort of help. It's disturbing that this guy has to wait for months to get veterans benefits.
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skywritergr 11y ago
I totally sympathise with the man, and i believe that this is an extremely well written article. At the same time though i want to mention that plenty of times when i get on a taxi i'm super tired, maybe distressed and really in no mood to talk to anyone. Glaring outside of the window saying nothing is my favourite thing to do, but many people might prefer watching pictures on Instagram from their hometowns and smile. As someone else said "C'est la vie"
dnautics 11y ago
I've never had to clean off blood or cum from my car... And I do drive frequently between 12am and 3am.
- jordanmessina 11y ago
  That was a quote from the movie Taxi Driver, as is all the italicized text in the article...
dsr_ 11y ago
It's a good companion piece to the Fred Wilson blog post on the Gig Economy: if we took care of our veterans, if we treated poor people like we want to be treated, if we didn't make rules for the economy that let wealth grow at the expense of the poor: then Uber couldn't exist in their current business plan. Saying "at least Uber lets people make some money" is an excuse for exploitation. It may be true, it may be better than nothing, but it's not actually a good solution.
- twoodfin 11y ago
  Why do you think Uber couldn't function without signing up poor drivers (veterans or otherwise)? Hard to judge anyone's economic circumstances from a 15 minute ride, but anecdotally most of my drivers have seemed to be folks with available hours and an available car looking to make some extra money. Never heard anyone describe Uber as something they were forced into by circumstance.
- thrill 11y ago
  It's only exploitation if you define it as such. Uber is a business (and if they weren't, then I at least wouldn't be interested in them) - they voluntarily give people money for voluntarily performing a task for them - what a concept. They like to hire vets because: 1) there are tax breaks, 2) it's a marketing point, 3) vets have already proven themselves to some degree. But point one is the most impactful - tax incentives are the self-abuse zits of our existence - you have to address them, but they only exist to balance out some other issue of complication. Being a vet doesn't make him particularly special - there are 20 million of us for the VA to ignore, after all. Any solution that puts the $160 billion annual budget of the VA and $60 billion DOD health budget into non-political hands is a non starter - and giving up political control doesn't happen in civilized society, especially one where vets vote for one party 20 points more than the other - there's no particular pressure on either party to fix that - one party doesn't appeal to most vets for a myriad of reasons, and the other has already captured those votes in spite of their general indifference. The "Gig Economy" exists because of the complications of doing it any other way, and is the only perturbation likely to get us off whatever local maxima our ever-increasing bureaucratic approach to life has captured us on.
- 11y ago
mcculley 11y ago
Among the comments that address the passengers not engaging in small talk with the driver, I don't see one of the reasons I don't engage much with the driver: It's sometimes difficult and frustrating to have a conversation with someone who is facing away from you.
mcculley 11y ago
A lot of this piece, which has some great bits of writing, is focused on the issues of the current generation of veterans. But a lot of the class and social mobility issues he describes are common to lots of people, not just veterans.
rasz_pl 11y ago
What is this I dont even :/ >Stuck on my dashboard where everyone can see is my Combat Infantry Badge... destroy enemy with direct fire ..a conversation starter...no one notices gee, maybe try some photos of a massacred village, or burned convoy full of children >Our unit slogan had been "Punish the Deserving." not psychotic at all >my thoughts drift, inevitably, to the voiceovers from Taxi Driver that have been rattling around in my head for months sign of pathetic VA hospitals psychiatric care. I hope someone will notice this article and take care of poor dude. >You're either part of the "haves" who work in tech, talk about tech, cater to tech, or try to make a living off tech, or you're part of the have-nots, the people who aren't in tech and are being driven out of this town Umm thats not how it works buddy. Haves and have-nots is about wealth. What you describe is education and skills. You are mixing cause and effect. >Many who work in tech are living their lives as if it's the carefree Roaring 20s, while I'm more or less stuck in the Great Depression. weird, its like people who decided to do something productive in life, instead of killing people on the other side of the planet, are actually doing something with their lives, instead of drinking until you fall under the bar while reminiscing 'countless "movement to contact" missions'. >I'm the dark guy driving whitey nice, thats just classy. >A robot could do my fucking job The way things are going robots will replace your previous job too.
- toolz 11y ago
  This is how I imagine most people who lead with, "I'm a veteran", think. It boggles my mind that someone feels deserving of respect because they found themselves in a low income situation and joined the military because of it. Relative to other low income, low skill, employment opportunities, joining the military is rather safe. Compare it to entry level construction workers for instance. So I'm supposed to pay tax dollars for your salary and then give up my seat on a plane because you're working just like the rest of us? By the way, thanks to everyone who is a contributing member of society. That goes for roofers, factory workers and military members alike, but please don't ask for special treatment from me, because I'm not likely to give it to you.
  - Dirlewanger 11y ago
    Unfortunately it's a byproduct of the US's quasi-deification of those who serve in the military. One really has to be a part of the club to really get it, I guess. For those whose past generations have made it a tradition of serving, yeah, it's a big deal. But those who know no one that's served, obviously not so much. And then there's the angle that you bring up: those who enlist generally are those with fewer skills to offer the marketplace and thus choose the safe government-supported route. Which isn't a bad thing, that's just how it is. Of course you're going to get downvotes from this crowd for not pussyfooting around the issue and saying how it really is. I too see it as absurd to worship the ground that veterans walk on, especially when it was their choice to be put in harm's way. It's not my fault you fell for all the war-is-glorious propaganda and then came home a fractured mess (the ineptitude of the VA is another issue).
toolsadmin 11y ago
Summary: "I've defended big oil interests halfway across the world in a war started on a false pretext, please worship me". I get it, you're a veteran and you're proud of that, and maybe you even did everything as a worthy human being, but tone down on the ego.
roymurdock 11y ago
I'm glad that the author is working through his problems, or, at the very least, expressing them through some fantastic writing. He makes some very astute observations that I don't think many of us would have access to otherwise. He is also the vocal minority of vet Uber drivers. 99% of vet Uber drivers are simply shuttling people around with these sorts of thoughts stewing repeatedly in their brain; most likely with no creative outlet or release other than alcohol/drugs because the treatment options are far from adequate for PTSD-afflicted vets. There's a shallow reason and a deep reason people like to read these stories about what it's like to be an Uber driver. The shallow reason is that these drivers usually have great stories about all of the strange, quirky people that come creeping out of the woodwork at night and put their real selves on display for the invisible taxi driver. The deep reason is that you like to see how bad these guys really have it, and then think to yourself "wow, I sure am glad that I don't have to do that for a living and work for that awful company that makes a lot of money employing/exploiting vets." A schadenfreude of sorts. Anyways, I commend the author for sticking his neck out and writing about the problems he perceives. It has sparked a dialogue here, and seeded ideas in my mind, along with the many others that have read the article. You don't have to agree with his points, or even like the guy as a human being, but it's great that he's got us all thinking.
lsb 11y ago
I'm looking forward to reading his most recent book: http://www.amazon.com/Thank-You-Being-Expendable-Experiences-ebook/dp/B00WAT6Q5W http://www.amazon.com/Thank-You-Being-Expendable-Experiences...
justinhj 11y ago
A nice piece of writing. Personally I hate feeling obliged to talk to bus drivers and taxi drivers but when a conversation happens it is often rewarding. That said, whilst the tech industry is certainly booming, the average tech worker is not getting an uber to their house in Palo Alto. Even on $150k salaries they are living quite ordinary lives in small rented apartments in the city or maybe a townhouse an hour away on the commuter train.
snake_plissken 11y ago
Wow, that is a great read. It hits on a lot of points about our society these days. Though I was surprised to read that very few people talk to him. I always chat up the taxi or uber or lyft drivers. You will meet the most fascinating of people. The Nigerian Uber driver who also runs a West African Chamber of Commerce to facilitate trade and business among the local immigrant population. The motorhead Uber driver who explained to me how to drive a motorcycle from Atlantic City to Philadelphia in under 45 minutes. The Lyft driver who was in school getting a masters degree in physics. The taxi driver who is a fanatical Chelsea fan and almost comes to the bar with you on a Sunday morning to watch the games, but can't quite do it because the last time he did that they lost.
- pavel_lishin 11y ago
  > Though I was surprised to read that very few people talk to him. I always chat up the taxi or uber or lyft drivers. You will meet the most fascinating of people. I'm an introvert. I don't particularly want to talk to people. There are times when I'll specifically take the subway, even when a cab would make more sense, just so I can be alone and read a book or listen to a podcast or something. On my last trip, I took about six rides, and talked to all but one. One conversation was fantastic, one was kinda fun, and the rest were just boring conversations I've already forgotten. And I consider that particular trip, with its ~20% "success" rate an outlier. There are days where I don't want to meet a fascinating person, but just want to get from point A to point B.
matrix 11y ago
Some background to this: the author, Colby Buzzell, is/was famous for his blog "My War" written while we was serving in Iraq. It was compelling reading to say the least, for example "Men in Black": https://web.archive.org/web/20041206093944/http://cbftw.blogspot.com/2004/08/men-in-black.html https://web.archive.org/web/20041206093944/http://cbftw.blog...
- Blackthorn 11y ago
  Semi-related, this reminds me of a friend-of-a-friend at the time who was in Iraq. He also had a gift for both writing and photography, though I don't think he ever achieved success of either. Here's a rather horrific photographic post from the time about the results of some of the ammunition used: http://lafinjack.livejournal.com/41715.html http://lafinjack.livejournal.com/41715.html His blog from that time period is both fascinating and horrifying in both pictures and stories.
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AndrewKemendo 11y ago
Sorry, but as an Iraq veteran myself I am getting tired of Veteran whining. Yes, we have significant issues and yes the VA and all the parties need to do a better job taking care of us. It took me 9 months alone to get my disability rating and VA benefits card - and many wait much longer - which is time that they aren't getting treatment. The broader population only know about these issues through Jon Stewart or from recent press, but have no connection with it otherwise nor could they really care. Should they? I don't know, probably, but not necessarily. Even within the military only those who are have been in the Army, or were deployed to a combat zone, really understand the significance of a CIB. So expecting anyone to recognize it, let alone start a conversation around it would be unexpected at the least - I know I wouldn't start a conversation around it. Putting it on display is hack and is looking for attention. I don't think that the US population owes us anything, but many veterans don't agree. This is part of a broader conversation about how the US public sees and interacts with it's veterans and the military more broadly. At the end of the day though the Stolen Valor shaming, demanding veteran/military discounts just reeks of entitlement. Given that we have been an all-volunteer force over the past 40 years I don't think anyone can claim they didn't know what they were getting into, granting that there are shady practices with recruiting that go on. In the end, I feel like stories like this just isolate veterans further. Rather than bring us more into the community as someone who has a unique experience and valuable point of view, it keeps the division between "civilian" and "military/veterans" alive and I think that is damaging on the whole.
- Bahamut 11y ago
  I think one of the unfortunate things is that most people don't understand what the military experience is, and how it might help their companies. Veterans should do a better job selling it to help bring awareness too. Veterans often deserve some fault as well - many don't make good decisions with their life due to some desire, and end up regretting their choices. I've seen many not make every effort to set themselves up for long term success, and often shoot for & encourage short term success, even if it ends up in a long term dead end. Perhaps they are not much different than a lot of the US population in that regard, but wishing for things to be different based on past experience is not going to do anyone any good.
thieving_magpie 11y ago
I have to talk to people all day long. When I take uber I get a few minutes of peace. My apologies to the uber driver that just really wants to share their life with me.
matkam 11y ago
Speaking with Lyft/Uber drivers myself, I hear there is a difference in culture between riders who choose between the two companies. Uber riders treat their drivers like taxis or "robots," while Lyft riders often converse with a fellow human being, who happens to be driving them around. It just sounds like this guy needs to switch companies.
fapjacks 11y ago
You know what I think every time I see an article like this? Did you really go to Iraq? Because the Iraq that I saw made me thankful as shit that I basically won the lottery of living in the developed world. Got some first world problems? Who cares. I have a CIB, too. But you know what I hate almost more than anything? People that shim their CIB into a conversation hoping to add more weight to their words. Life is rough for the vast majority of people on the planet. Take your experiences in hand and be thankful you made it out of that shithole alive.
- sibmike 11y ago
  That is sure some good writing because it touches so many problems our generation face. I would like to point out the question mentioned, why are we different from the great generation? So here is a little love story about a vet from the great generation. Grandfather had 6 gunwounds and worked all his life on a coal mine in Siberia. He also was the happiest man I ever met. He was sent to army because he was dating the wrong girl, my grandmother. Some local "boss" wanted to merry her so he sent my grandpa to the army. After three years of service grandfather had been offered to go to a Militar Academy, thats when he got a letter telling him that he had a daughter. It also stated thet grandmother went to work on coalmines on Shpitzbergen (google it), so her parents and little daughter get additional food supplies. So he rejected the offer, droped out of the force and went back to Siberia. The army was not happy about it. He didnt get any military benefits, no badges, no pension, no documents of where he's been or what he's done. Only 6 gunwounds on his leg, arm and torso. When he got back he's made a fake electricians papers and got a job on a local coal mine. When grandmother found out that he is back she returned home in a few months. They got married and had 2 more kids. My granddad worked on the same coal mine for the rest of his life. They lived and died in the same 500sf wooden duplex. Coal heating, cold water 300 meters away from the home, WC in the yard. He drove one single motorcycle all his life. They have never had a phone, so he walked to the post office once a week to talk to his daughters. How come he's been the happiest man I've ever met? Well, he loved fishing, his yard, cards and his family. He died a few years ago. His daughters had to fly half the world to get to the funeral. One lives in Tuscany, Italy, another in Santa Clara, CA. What made that generation great? Maybe they did what had to be done and were happy about it. Perhaps they never expected much from life and tresured little what they had. Sure they had something our generation is missing. PS: Grandfather's sister told this story to my aunt only after he died. He's never mentioned army or the hardtimes.

146 points by sloanesturz 11y ago

Wow, what an amazing read. That guy is a great writer. It almost sounded like the narration of film noir. Anyways, I had no idea that Uber drivers made so much money. $40-$50 an hour! That's incredible. I make the low end of that working as the tech lead of a ~15-person tech startup. I bet that car maintenance takes a big chunk out of his pay but still. My first reaction to this piece was "what the fuck are you whining about? You make more than most people, and even more than me and my job is way harder than yours!" Then again, I totally empathize with his alienation from his own job. It's hard, spending the precious hours of your short life on things other than what you're really passionate about. It sucks that our society rewards being a taxi driver more than creative things -- like this guy's amazing writing. I don't know what to do about that, and I feel his pain there.

saurik 11y ago
"If it makes you feel any better", Google seems to be pretty close to making driving a taxi worth almost nothing.
- josephagoss 11y ago
  How so? Do you mean driverless cars or something else they are working on?
  - creativityhurts 11y ago
    He might refer to self-driving cars. Also relevant https://www.yahoo.com/autos/s/uber-ceo-tesla-sell-half-million-autonomous-electric-110000053.html https://www.yahoo.com/autos/s/uber-ceo-tesla-sell-half-milli...
ild 11y ago
> $40-$50 an hour No. Especially outside Bay Area. More like $10-$20/h.
pkorzeniewski 11y ago
It's hard, spending the precious hours of your short life on things other than what you're really passionate about Isn't this true for the vast majority? Most people take jobs not because they're passionate about them, but because they need money to pay bills and buy stuff - simple as that. Some earn more, some earn less, but at the end of the day almost everyone would like to do something else. Even in IT, where wages are high and work is comfortable, I doubt most are passionate about their work - it's a different thing hacking some fun app or game in your spare time and working on some monstrous enterprise software, where you're just a tiny cog doing what you're told to do.
- a_shane 11y ago
  I was actually going to reply to that point, as well. This guy, despite his somewhat unique circumstances (and superb writing) isn't really alone in that he has to do what he needs, however unfulfilling, to get by.
- ethbro 11y ago
  I think about the people who work in fast food chains. Their entire working lives circumscribed by a binder written by people so many levels above them that thinking about it risks vertigo. Decrease labor costs. Increase productivity per worker. Decrease food prices / increase profit with savings. *Footnote: Make working just attractive enough so that people will apply in sufficient numbers I think about what kind of life that would be every time I see someone post-teen working in a BurgChickeBoxMcKingBell. Try going through one sometime out in the country, when you're far enough away from a city that there aren't any other jobs. See who's being employed there. .... What a disgusting system we've created. Writer is right about the tech haves and the have-nots. PS: BasicIncome
  - lanaius 11y ago
    When I was a kid, I bought a box of thumb tacks at the dollar store. When I got home and was using them, I suddenly got very sad: I started thinking about the people who assembled the tacks and put them in the boxes. Being naïve at that age I assumed everything was done manually, and I just felt awful about people who spent all day doing this just to sell them at the dollar store - they must be paid pennies!
VLM 11y ago
Its easy to make $45/hr 9pm-3am on the weekend. The problem is confusing 6 hours per week with 40 hours per week. This has occasionally been an issue for me with contracting... hey I got a gig 8 hours/one day per week. Um, ok, great hourly pay, but how am I supposed to feed my family working only 8 hours/week, even if the hourly pay is 2x what I get now? That's why writing is a good second gig for the article author. No way to make $45 between 10am and 11am Sunday, well, go write something, its not like you're losing fares...
hiddencost 11y ago
But you cost your employer almost twice that. Benefits, health care, insurance, supplies, furniture, equipment etc.
hackuser 11y ago
> I had no idea that Uber drivers made so much money. $40-$50 an hour He said he didn't make that much.
- methodover 11y ago
  The article said... > According to my weekly reports from Uber emails, I average anywhere from $40 to $50 an hour doing this shit—by my count, it's less. You know, when I read that I thought he meant "it's less" in the sense of "It's not worth that much to me" rather than literally, "Uber's average wage statistics are incorrect." But I'm probably totally wrong. If I'm wrong, it's weird that Uber's calculations are wrong there. I wonder if they're like, not calculating time spent waiting for a fare?
  - yazaddaruvala 11y ago
    From what I understand its revenue, not profit. Uber just adds up the transactions that you've been a part of. Then they take their 25% fee, then the driver has to subtract whatever they paid in insurance + gas + tolls + maintenance + amenities (food or water). For most (who can't buy a car outright) they have to pay their car loan/lease payments. Then to really calculate "take home pay", like the rest of us, you have to subtract taxes. Another 25%-35% depending on state+federal tax brackets. P.S. Hopefully they do their taxes correctly. I imagine if you did it as a "small business" you could subtract all of your expenses first and even subtract depreciation of your capital (depreciation of your car), then do your taxes on the far smaller amount rather than on $50 per hour gross income. Honestly, if they weren't curious enough to educate themselves about their taxes, I don't even know how it would be profitable.
tosseraccount 11y ago
society rewards being a taxi driver more than creative things The best creative people make a lot more than the best tax drivers. "Society" does reward them.

yundlepasst 11y ago

"Stuck on my dashboard where everyone can see is my Combat Infantry Badge... supposed to be a conversation starter" "one guy went on a monologue—to impress me, I guess—about a distant relative of his who was in the Special Forces" Bit of a hypocrite. Who cares that he was in the military? In the UK people serve in the military if they want to serve in the military, and they don't expect the world to thank them for it 24/7 for the rest of their lives.

EugeneOZ 11y ago

When people call taxi they don't hope to see interesting human to talk with, they need a car to move them from point A to point B. This driver expects his clients to be wondered about him or his life, when they don't expect it and often don't want to spend their time to be somebody's psychotherapist. It's sad he is so lonely, but taxi is not that place which should fix it - maybe dating sites.

illumen 11y ago
Maybe a professional therapist plus friends and family would be better than randoms.
- test1235 11y ago
  Are therapists expensive?
  - illumen 11y ago
    Hopefully they are covered by the medical system.
    - aaronem 11y ago
      Did you not read the part about what it's like to try to get benefits through the VA? World War II was the last time the United States gave anything like a genuine damn about their expended soldiers; they've never given less of one than they do today. Why else would so many have no better option than to work for a company which plainly regards its human drivers as nothing more or less than an eminently disposable means of bootstrapping to the point where robot cars are practicable?
    - protomyth 11y ago
      from the VA? nope, you get more drugs than is wise after you wait over a year for the paperwork. At this point, closing all the VA centers and paying for the same medical insurance that Congress gets for our veterans would be cheaper and better. A lot of the problems is the US's approach (or lack thereof) to Mental Health issues. We attack symbols instead of dealing with the actual problem that we have some folks with broken brains. Some of those folks are veterans and the US needs to deal with the breakage. The current system is a disaster. Lord help our Native American Veterans who not only get to deal with the VA but also IHS.

pkkim 11y ago

"Many who work in tech are living their lives as if it's the carefree Roaring 20s, while I'm more or less stuck in the Great Depression." Of course, the roaring twenties were themselves times of relative inequality, and that name only describes the excitement, culture, and affluence of the urban rich of the era. The author seems to be describing the modern day euphoria over the power of the tech industry to make a new world as similarly one-sided.

aaronem 11y ago
Isn't it? No one in Silicon Valley gives a damn about anyone outside it, or indeed outside their own social and professional circles. There's nothing intrinsically unusual about this, of course, but it lends a certain sardonic amusement to an outsider's perspective on the "changing the world" rhetoric which SV has taken beyond mere cliché to what may be a new and previously unimagined realm of banality.
- nmeofthestate 11y ago
  >No one in Silicon Valley gives a damn about anyone outside it Seems unlikely.
- onedev 11y ago
  I certainly care about people outside of SV. I'm in SV.

mitkok 11y ago

Am I the only one that read that article as "I went to Iraq to murder people and now when I'm back I' so lonely" ?

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- evook 11y ago
  Probably you should not enlist in the US Military and complain afterwards about lost opportunities and PTSD because of doing pointless crimes for an overall pointless war. Thanks for your service.... hmm not really.

rawTruthHurts 11y ago

Well, c'est la vie.

MattyRad 11y ago

What a great piece that describes the new type existential despair seen in the modern world. How are we so isolated in spite of connectedness? The question of burning time, for money, for... what? How does one come to serve the haves who happened into success and wealth and prestige? Still though, he makes more money than I do working as a computer engineer, which is a small consolation. Anyway, outstanding read and I sincerely hope things improve for him and vets everywhere.

scotty79 11y ago

> Most of the time I'm completely invisible to the people I drive. Perhaps we're all conditioned not to speak to the hired help. ... or to strangers.

aaronem 11y ago
Sure, because we're all six years old and walking home from school.
- deleted 11y ago
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- louhike 11y ago
  What is the use of this comment? To ridicule him? It looks like (seeing your other comments) you are just angry because people are criticizing the driver justifying why they would not talk to him. Maybe they are in the wrong, but you are too agressive and your message will not get through.

brc 11y ago

>treating me like a machine while my thoughts drift The simple truth is that for many people! they hire someone to do a job and would rather not talk while that job is done.

hellofunk 11y ago

I find this mildly frightening, though hopefully that is just my imagination getting the best of me. A combat soldier who takes strangers around town all day, while thinking how much he identifies with the main character of Taxi Driver, a recluse vigilante who also kept a written diary of his thoughts before attempting to assassinate a politician.

surge 11y ago
He identifies with the character, but the movie is an exaggeration or taking the mindset to an extreme. Many people identify with the main character from Fight Club, and quote it often, but none of us are developing split personality disorders or fighting with ourselves in a bar parking lot or starting an underground fighting club. What should frighten you is that being an Uber driver is the best employment option for a war veteran with PTSD. This guy has his writing, and I'd hire him on the spot just reading that article, but not all vets have that even.
- hellofunk 11y ago
  Actually, what frightens me even more is that anyone in the world should ever be a veteran of a war.

Alex999 11y ago

Most of the people are glued to their phones while ridding a cab...its a Mad Mad World!!

aaronem 11y ago

A robot could do my fucking job. In a few years, one will. God bless Silicon Valley.

omouse 11y ago
And hopefully this talk of a basic income will be the most sensible solution instead of forcing veterans and people with low incomes to beg and wait for any sort of help. It's disturbing that this guy has to wait for months to get veterans benefits.

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skywritergr 11y ago

I totally sympathise with the man, and i believe that this is an extremely well written article. At the same time though i want to mention that plenty of times when i get on a taxi i'm super tired, maybe distressed and really in no mood to talk to anyone. Glaring outside of the window saying nothing is my favourite thing to do, but many people might prefer watching pictures on Instagram from their hometowns and smile. As someone else said "C'est la vie"

dnautics 11y ago

I've never had to clean off blood or cum from my car... And I do drive frequently between 12am and 3am.

jordanmessina 11y ago
That was a quote from the movie Taxi Driver, as is all the italicized text in the article...

dsr_ 11y ago

It's a good companion piece to the Fred Wilson blog post on the Gig Economy: if we took care of our veterans, if we treated poor people like we want to be treated, if we didn't make rules for the economy that let wealth grow at the expense of the poor: then Uber couldn't exist in their current business plan. Saying "at least Uber lets people make some money" is an excuse for exploitation. It may be true, it may be better than nothing, but it's not actually a good solution.

twoodfin 11y ago
Why do you think Uber couldn't function without signing up poor drivers (veterans or otherwise)? Hard to judge anyone's economic circumstances from a 15 minute ride, but anecdotally most of my drivers have seemed to be folks with available hours and an available car looking to make some extra money. Never heard anyone describe Uber as something they were forced into by circumstance.
thrill 11y ago
It's only exploitation if you define it as such. Uber is a business (and if they weren't, then I at least wouldn't be interested in them) - they voluntarily give people money for voluntarily performing a task for them - what a concept. They like to hire vets because: 1) there are tax breaks, 2) it's a marketing point, 3) vets have already proven themselves to some degree. But point one is the most impactful - tax incentives are the self-abuse zits of our existence - you have to address them, but they only exist to balance out some other issue of complication. Being a vet doesn't make him particularly special - there are 20 million of us for the VA to ignore, after all. Any solution that puts the $160 billion annual budget of the VA and $60 billion DOD health budget into non-political hands is a non starter - and giving up political control doesn't happen in civilized society, especially one where vets vote for one party 20 points more than the other - there's no particular pressure on either party to fix that - one party doesn't appeal to most vets for a myriad of reasons, and the other has already captured those votes in spite of their general indifference. The "Gig Economy" exists because of the complications of doing it any other way, and is the only perturbation likely to get us off whatever local maxima our ever-increasing bureaucratic approach to life has captured us on.
11y ago

mcculley 11y ago

Among the comments that address the passengers not engaging in small talk with the driver, I don't see one of the reasons I don't engage much with the driver: It's sometimes difficult and frustrating to have a conversation with someone who is facing away from you.

mcculley 11y ago

A lot of this piece, which has some great bits of writing, is focused on the issues of the current generation of veterans. But a lot of the class and social mobility issues he describes are common to lots of people, not just veterans.

rasz_pl 11y ago

What is this I dont even :/ >Stuck on my dashboard where everyone can see is my Combat Infantry Badge... destroy enemy with direct fire ..a conversation starter...no one notices gee, maybe try some photos of a massacred village, or burned convoy full of children >Our unit slogan had been "Punish the Deserving." not psychotic at all >my thoughts drift, inevitably, to the voiceovers from Taxi Driver that have been rattling around in my head for months sign of pathetic VA hospitals psychiatric care. I hope someone will notice this article and take care of poor dude. >You're either part of the "haves" who work in tech, talk about tech, cater to tech, or try to make a living off tech, or you're part of the have-nots, the people who aren't in tech and are being driven out of this town Umm thats not how it works buddy. Haves and have-nots is about wealth. What you describe is education and skills. You are mixing cause and effect. >Many who work in tech are living their lives as if it's the carefree Roaring 20s, while I'm more or less stuck in the Great Depression. weird, its like people who decided to do something productive in life, instead of killing people on the other side of the planet, are actually doing something with their lives, instead of drinking until you fall under the bar while reminiscing 'countless "movement to contact" missions'. >I'm the dark guy driving whitey nice, thats just classy. >A robot could do my fucking job The way things are going robots will replace your previous job too.

toolz 11y ago
This is how I imagine most people who lead with, "I'm a veteran", think. It boggles my mind that someone feels deserving of respect because they found themselves in a low income situation and joined the military because of it. Relative to other low income, low skill, employment opportunities, joining the military is rather safe. Compare it to entry level construction workers for instance. So I'm supposed to pay tax dollars for your salary and then give up my seat on a plane because you're working just like the rest of us? By the way, thanks to everyone who is a contributing member of society. That goes for roofers, factory workers and military members alike, but please don't ask for special treatment from me, because I'm not likely to give it to you.
- Dirlewanger 11y ago
  Unfortunately it's a byproduct of the US's quasi-deification of those who serve in the military. One really has to be a part of the club to really get it, I guess. For those whose past generations have made it a tradition of serving, yeah, it's a big deal. But those who know no one that's served, obviously not so much. And then there's the angle that you bring up: those who enlist generally are those with fewer skills to offer the marketplace and thus choose the safe government-supported route. Which isn't a bad thing, that's just how it is. Of course you're going to get downvotes from this crowd for not pussyfooting around the issue and saying how it really is. I too see it as absurd to worship the ground that veterans walk on, especially when it was their choice to be put in harm's way. It's not my fault you fell for all the war-is-glorious propaganda and then came home a fractured mess (the ineptitude of the VA is another issue).

toolsadmin 11y ago

Summary: "I've defended big oil interests halfway across the world in a war started on a false pretext, please worship me". I get it, you're a veteran and you're proud of that, and maybe you even did everything as a worthy human being, but tone down on the ego.

roymurdock 11y ago

I'm glad that the author is working through his problems, or, at the very least, expressing them through some fantastic writing. He makes some very astute observations that I don't think many of us would have access to otherwise. He is also the vocal minority of vet Uber drivers. 99% of vet Uber drivers are simply shuttling people around with these sorts of thoughts stewing repeatedly in their brain; most likely with no creative outlet or release other than alcohol/drugs because the treatment options are far from adequate for PTSD-afflicted vets. There's a shallow reason and a deep reason people like to read these stories about what it's like to be an Uber driver. The shallow reason is that these drivers usually have great stories about all of the strange, quirky people that come creeping out of the woodwork at night and put their real selves on display for the invisible taxi driver. The deep reason is that you like to see how bad these guys really have it, and then think to yourself "wow, I sure am glad that I don't have to do that for a living and work for that awful company that makes a lot of money employing/exploiting vets." A schadenfreude of sorts. Anyways, I commend the author for sticking his neck out and writing about the problems he perceives. It has sparked a dialogue here, and seeded ideas in my mind, along with the many others that have read the article. You don't have to agree with his points, or even like the guy as a human being, but it's great that he's got us all thinking.

lsb 11y ago

I'm looking forward to reading his most recent book: http://www.amazon.com/Thank-You-Being-Expendable-Experiences-ebook/dp/B00WAT6Q5W http://www.amazon.com/Thank-You-Being-Expendable-Experiences...

justinhj 11y ago

A nice piece of writing. Personally I hate feeling obliged to talk to bus drivers and taxi drivers but when a conversation happens it is often rewarding. That said, whilst the tech industry is certainly booming, the average tech worker is not getting an uber to their house in Palo Alto. Even on $150k salaries they are living quite ordinary lives in small rented apartments in the city or maybe a townhouse an hour away on the commuter train.

snake_plissken 11y ago

Wow, that is a great read. It hits on a lot of points about our society these days. Though I was surprised to read that very few people talk to him. I always chat up the taxi or uber or lyft drivers. You will meet the most fascinating of people. The Nigerian Uber driver who also runs a West African Chamber of Commerce to facilitate trade and business among the local immigrant population. The motorhead Uber driver who explained to me how to drive a motorcycle from Atlantic City to Philadelphia in under 45 minutes. The Lyft driver who was in school getting a masters degree in physics. The taxi driver who is a fanatical Chelsea fan and almost comes to the bar with you on a Sunday morning to watch the games, but can't quite do it because the last time he did that they lost.

pavel_lishin 11y ago
> Though I was surprised to read that very few people talk to him. I always chat up the taxi or uber or lyft drivers. You will meet the most fascinating of people. I'm an introvert. I don't particularly want to talk to people. There are times when I'll specifically take the subway, even when a cab would make more sense, just so I can be alone and read a book or listen to a podcast or something. On my last trip, I took about six rides, and talked to all but one. One conversation was fantastic, one was kinda fun, and the rest were just boring conversations I've already forgotten. And I consider that particular trip, with its ~20% "success" rate an outlier. There are days where I don't want to meet a fascinating person, but just want to get from point A to point B.

matrix 11y ago

Some background to this: the author, Colby Buzzell, is/was famous for his blog "My War" written while we was serving in Iraq. It was compelling reading to say the least, for example "Men in Black": https://web.archive.org/web/20041206093944/http://cbftw.blogspot.com/2004/08/men-in-black.html https://web.archive.org/web/20041206093944/http://cbftw.blog...

Blackthorn 11y ago
Semi-related, this reminds me of a friend-of-a-friend at the time who was in Iraq. He also had a gift for both writing and photography, though I don't think he ever achieved success of either. Here's a rather horrific photographic post from the time about the results of some of the ammunition used: http://lafinjack.livejournal.com/41715.html http://lafinjack.livejournal.com/41715.html His blog from that time period is both fascinating and horrifying in both pictures and stories.

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AndrewKemendo 11y ago

Sorry, but as an Iraq veteran myself I am getting tired of Veteran whining. Yes, we have significant issues and yes the VA and all the parties need to do a better job taking care of us. It took me 9 months alone to get my disability rating and VA benefits card - and many wait much longer - which is time that they aren't getting treatment. The broader population only know about these issues through Jon Stewart or from recent press, but have no connection with it otherwise nor could they really care. Should they? I don't know, probably, but not necessarily. Even within the military only those who are have been in the Army, or were deployed to a combat zone, really understand the significance of a CIB. So expecting anyone to recognize it, let alone start a conversation around it would be unexpected at the least - I know I wouldn't start a conversation around it. Putting it on display is hack and is looking for attention. I don't think that the US population owes us anything, but many veterans don't agree. This is part of a broader conversation about how the US public sees and interacts with it's veterans and the military more broadly. At the end of the day though the Stolen Valor shaming, demanding veteran/military discounts just reeks of entitlement. Given that we have been an all-volunteer force over the past 40 years I don't think anyone can claim they didn't know what they were getting into, granting that there are shady practices with recruiting that go on. In the end, I feel like stories like this just isolate veterans further. Rather than bring us more into the community as someone who has a unique experience and valuable point of view, it keeps the division between "civilian" and "military/veterans" alive and I think that is damaging on the whole.

Bahamut 11y ago
I think one of the unfortunate things is that most people don't understand what the military experience is, and how it might help their companies. Veterans should do a better job selling it to help bring awareness too. Veterans often deserve some fault as well - many don't make good decisions with their life due to some desire, and end up regretting their choices. I've seen many not make every effort to set themselves up for long term success, and often shoot for & encourage short term success, even if it ends up in a long term dead end. Perhaps they are not much different than a lot of the US population in that regard, but wishing for things to be different based on past experience is not going to do anyone any good.

thieving_magpie 11y ago

I have to talk to people all day long. When I take uber I get a few minutes of peace. My apologies to the uber driver that just really wants to share their life with me.

matkam 11y ago

Speaking with Lyft/Uber drivers myself, I hear there is a difference in culture between riders who choose between the two companies. Uber riders treat their drivers like taxis or "robots," while Lyft riders often converse with a fellow human being, who happens to be driving them around. It just sounds like this guy needs to switch companies.

fapjacks 11y ago

You know what I think every time I see an article like this? Did you really go to Iraq? Because the Iraq that I saw made me thankful as shit that I basically won the lottery of living in the developed world. Got some first world problems? Who cares. I have a CIB, too. But you know what I hate almost more than anything? People that shim their CIB into a conversation hoping to add more weight to their words. Life is rough for the vast majority of people on the planet. Take your experiences in hand and be thankful you made it out of that shithole alive.

sibmike 11y ago
That is sure some good writing because it touches so many problems our generation face. I would like to point out the question mentioned, why are we different from the great generation? So here is a little love story about a vet from the great generation. Grandfather had 6 gunwounds and worked all his life on a coal mine in Siberia. He also was the happiest man I ever met. He was sent to army because he was dating the wrong girl, my grandmother. Some local "boss" wanted to merry her so he sent my grandpa to the army. After three years of service grandfather had been offered to go to a Militar Academy, thats when he got a letter telling him that he had a daughter. It also stated thet grandmother went to work on coalmines on Shpitzbergen (google it), so her parents and little daughter get additional food supplies. So he rejected the offer, droped out of the force and went back to Siberia. The army was not happy about it. He didnt get any military benefits, no badges, no pension, no documents of where he's been or what he's done. Only 6 gunwounds on his leg, arm and torso. When he got back he's made a fake electricians papers and got a job on a local coal mine. When grandmother found out that he is back she returned home in a few months. They got married and had 2 more kids. My granddad worked on the same coal mine for the rest of his life. They lived and died in the same 500sf wooden duplex. Coal heating, cold water 300 meters away from the home, WC in the yard. He drove one single motorcycle all his life. They have never had a phone, so he walked to the post office once a week to talk to his daughters. How come he's been the happiest man I've ever met? Well, he loved fishing, his yard, cards and his family. He died a few years ago. His daughters had to fly half the world to get to the funeral. One lives in Tuscany, Italy, another in Santa Clara, CA. What made that generation great? Maybe they did what had to be done and were happy about it. Perhaps they never expected much from life and tresured little what they had. Sure they had something our generation is missing. PS: Grandfather's sister told this story to my aunt only after he died. He's never mentioned army or the hardtimes.