6 ms·

The Cool Front-End Developer

37 points by chavesn 11y ago

ForHackernews 11y ago
No one cares. You're not cool. Shave your beard.
- AlOGW 11y ago
  I for one, find the lengths people go to seem unique incredibly hilarious, it takes a special kind of person to call himself a lover of a programming language.
  - devuo 11y ago
    For real.
- reustle 11y ago
  I thought it might be satire when I saw the picture at the top. It's like a stock photo.
kbody 11y ago
There is no need to always create an "opposite"-view post in response to other "controversial" posts. Can't wait for "The Pragmatic Front-End Developer" to pop-up in a few days. Bottom line, we should focus on discussion that progresses our craft and not superficial rivalries. Take for example the excellent Pure UI by rauchg [1] (at the very least check the first footnote of the article, a true engineer in mind) [1]: http://rauchg.com/2015/pure-ui http://rauchg.com/2015/pure-ui
- woah 11y ago
  "The Mediocre Front-End Developer"
  - goo 11y ago
    This made me laugh hard enough to actually write it: http://gurukhalsa.me/2015/the-mediocre-front-end-developer/ http://gurukhalsa.me/2015/the-mediocre-front-end-developer/
- hamburglar 11y ago
  I'm working on one called GOTO Considered Essential that's gonna blow everyone's minds.
  - michaelochurch 11y ago
    I'm working on one called Full Stack Goto that's going to be downright exceptional.
- sergiotapia 11y ago
  What article is this submission opposing? Context?
  - w0rmwood 11y ago
    The article says at the bottom that it was written in response to another and provides a link.
at-fates-hands 11y ago
He forgot the part about jumping on every new JS library bandwagon when its still in beta and impressing all his friends with a new framework nobody has heard of.
- sergiotapia 11y ago
  Your comment just reads as "I've been using MooTools since my pappy was alive! It works so why change it." If you want to stagnate and use the same tools, go for it. Other people will continue to push the envelope and improve the day to day lives of thousands of programmers everywhere. If people were afraid to try new things, we wouldn't have things like Ember, or React, or Meteor, or Mythril, or Rails. You don't have to try every single thing that comes out, but at least be aware of them, and give them a cursory 30 minutes glance. You like programming, I assume? This should be fun, and it is!
  - fineline 11y ago
    >> If people were afraid to try new things, we wouldn't have things like Ember, or React, or Meteor, or Mythril, or Rails. Or washing machines. Or cars. Or penicillin. The anti-innovation mindset that pervades in this industry just baffles me. Sure, don't rewrite the accounting system every time a new framework comes out, but don't knock those forging the future either. (I know you weren't, I'm adding to your reaction to the parent.)
    - dragonwriter 11y ago
      > The anti-innovation mindset that pervades in this industry just baffles me. Developers in the industry are often in the business of selling their experience with particular technologies. New technologies becoming popular reduces the market value of that experience. The "anti-innovation" mindset -- and more specifically the public dismissal of new alternatives -- is often simple self-interested marketing.
  - devuo 11y ago
    There's not a problem with trying to build new things, quite the opposite. The problem is not so much with the creators but with the adoptees. Just because you're using something "new", that does not give you the right to say that whatever else someone is using that's not what you are using, shit. That and writing bullshit comparison articles between X and Y and proclaiming that X is amazing and you are lame and outdated if you are still using Y. If there's a profession that's as full of posers and hipsters this has to be it.
TheBiv 11y ago
Every time a popular opinion blog comes around that has an opposing opinion come out, I always wonder if these archetypes do actually help to advance the field they're talking about. Meaning, I do actually find it helpful to read about how people are defining their value while performing their skill. Does anyone else find these opposing opinions helpful or do you just see them as wasteful drivel? Granted, this is just a blog post, so the author isn't probably isn't actively trying to craft a faction amongst front end developers.
- sanderjd 11y ago
  I'm glad you brought this up. I think it is generally difficult to come up with enough value on top of "hmm, this is a thought-provoking conversation and I'm glad it is being discussed" to be worth commenting, so comments vehemently agreeing or disagreeing end up being more common, and it is tempting to view the distribution of comments as being representative of the distribution of viewpoints. In reality, I suspect most people are like you (and me), and find that reading different viewpoints on a subject helps them solidify their own thoughts. So yeah, I'm at least with you on finding this particular conversation useful and not at all wasteful drivel.
- lmm 11y ago
  I find it useful. Individuals are very bad at being balanced. Seeing two opposed viewpoints and weighing them up for myself gives me a better basis for making decisions.
  - chavesn 11y ago
    Indeed, some the most beneficial exchanges to observe are outright arguments.[1] When no one disagrees, no idea is truly tested. This reminds me of pg's "What you can't say" essay[2]. We may be able to identify areas we are wrong by evaluating the topics on which we are most unlikely to allow dissent. [1]: http://i.imgur.com/akfcNkJ.gif http://i.imgur.com/akfcNkJ.gif [2]: http://www.paulgraham.com/say.html http://www.paulgraham.com/say.html
  - nostrademons 11y ago
    Nah, some individuals are pretty good at being balanced. Such individuals are unremarkable and not very vocal, and so you never pay attention to them on the Internet. If you want balance, you need to seek it out, both consciously asking people with measured responses what they mean and discounting people who hold extreme viewpoints.
chavesn 11y ago
Yesterday, when The Boring Front-end Developer was posted, the top commentary[1] seemed generally critical of the change-averse attitude. The TL;DR was "this is technology industry, new stuff is good. Get used to it." Front-end code preprocessors, recent build systems and package managers, new-age frameworks (Angular), "Universal JS", and SPAs would all fit into this category. Some tend to be skeptical, some are evangelists. There is a line in the sand, and while most developers don't fall clearly on either side, taken in aggregate, the line is visible. I quite liked the BFED post. However, I submitted this because I think it makes persuasive counter-points. Given the negative tone yesterday, I thought the crowd here might be more receptive to the more forward-thinking mindset. What's fascinating to me is that, even with nearly directly opposing viewpoints, the commentary on both HN discussion threads is actually quite critical. [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9879172 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9879172
kvcrawford 11y ago
TIL I am cool. Finally!
serve_yay 11y ago
One thing the "boring/cool" divide doesn't capture is that a certain amount of the so-called cool kid shit involves an attempt to revive computing ideas that are about 50 years old.
stuaxo 11y ago
Somebody needs to concentrate on the boring stuff... in particular, making sure all the stuff on npm etc actually works... The few times I try and use "hipster stuff", like yeoman generators, they don't really work out the box, and it feels like I could have spent that time manually getting things working, also a lot of complexity is added. In a similar way, the churn rate of JS libs is just absolutely insane. From - a boring backend developer.

37 points by chavesn 11y ago

ForHackernews 11y ago

No one cares. You're not cool. Shave your beard.

AlOGW 11y ago
I for one, find the lengths people go to seem unique incredibly hilarious, it takes a special kind of person to call himself a lover of a programming language.
- devuo 11y ago
  For real.
reustle 11y ago
I thought it might be satire when I saw the picture at the top. It's like a stock photo.

kbody 11y ago

There is no need to always create an "opposite"-view post in response to other "controversial" posts. Can't wait for "The Pragmatic Front-End Developer" to pop-up in a few days. Bottom line, we should focus on discussion that progresses our craft and not superficial rivalries. Take for example the excellent Pure UI by rauchg [1] (at the very least check the first footnote of the article, a true engineer in mind) [1]: http://rauchg.com/2015/pure-ui http://rauchg.com/2015/pure-ui

woah 11y ago
"The Mediocre Front-End Developer"
- goo 11y ago
  This made me laugh hard enough to actually write it: http://gurukhalsa.me/2015/the-mediocre-front-end-developer/ http://gurukhalsa.me/2015/the-mediocre-front-end-developer/
hamburglar 11y ago
I'm working on one called GOTO Considered Essential that's gonna blow everyone's minds.
- michaelochurch 11y ago
  I'm working on one called Full Stack Goto that's going to be downright exceptional.
sergiotapia 11y ago
What article is this submission opposing? Context?
- w0rmwood 11y ago
  The article says at the bottom that it was written in response to another and provides a link.

at-fates-hands 11y ago

He forgot the part about jumping on every new JS library bandwagon when its still in beta and impressing all his friends with a new framework nobody has heard of.

sergiotapia 11y ago
Your comment just reads as "I've been using MooTools since my pappy was alive! It works so why change it." If you want to stagnate and use the same tools, go for it. Other people will continue to push the envelope and improve the day to day lives of thousands of programmers everywhere. If people were afraid to try new things, we wouldn't have things like Ember, or React, or Meteor, or Mythril, or Rails. You don't have to try every single thing that comes out, but at least be aware of them, and give them a cursory 30 minutes glance. You like programming, I assume? This should be fun, and it is!
- fineline 11y ago
  >> If people were afraid to try new things, we wouldn't have things like Ember, or React, or Meteor, or Mythril, or Rails. Or washing machines. Or cars. Or penicillin. The anti-innovation mindset that pervades in this industry just baffles me. Sure, don't rewrite the accounting system every time a new framework comes out, but don't knock those forging the future either. (I know you weren't, I'm adding to your reaction to the parent.)
  - dragonwriter 11y ago
    > The anti-innovation mindset that pervades in this industry just baffles me. Developers in the industry are often in the business of selling their experience with particular technologies. New technologies becoming popular reduces the market value of that experience. The "anti-innovation" mindset -- and more specifically the public dismissal of new alternatives -- is often simple self-interested marketing.
- devuo 11y ago
  There's not a problem with trying to build new things, quite the opposite. The problem is not so much with the creators but with the adoptees. Just because you're using something "new", that does not give you the right to say that whatever else someone is using that's not what you are using, shit. That and writing bullshit comparison articles between X and Y and proclaiming that X is amazing and you are lame and outdated if you are still using Y. If there's a profession that's as full of posers and hipsters this has to be it.

TheBiv 11y ago

Every time a popular opinion blog comes around that has an opposing opinion come out, I always wonder if these archetypes do actually help to advance the field they're talking about. Meaning, I do actually find it helpful to read about how people are defining their value while performing their skill. Does anyone else find these opposing opinions helpful or do you just see them as wasteful drivel? Granted, this is just a blog post, so the author isn't probably isn't actively trying to craft a faction amongst front end developers.

sanderjd 11y ago
I'm glad you brought this up. I think it is generally difficult to come up with enough value on top of "hmm, this is a thought-provoking conversation and I'm glad it is being discussed" to be worth commenting, so comments vehemently agreeing or disagreeing end up being more common, and it is tempting to view the distribution of comments as being representative of the distribution of viewpoints. In reality, I suspect most people are like you (and me), and find that reading different viewpoints on a subject helps them solidify their own thoughts. So yeah, I'm at least with you on finding this particular conversation useful and not at all wasteful drivel.
lmm 11y ago
I find it useful. Individuals are very bad at being balanced. Seeing two opposed viewpoints and weighing them up for myself gives me a better basis for making decisions.
- chavesn 11y ago
  Indeed, some the most beneficial exchanges to observe are outright arguments.[1] When no one disagrees, no idea is truly tested. This reminds me of pg's "What you can't say" essay[2]. We may be able to identify areas we are wrong by evaluating the topics on which we are most unlikely to allow dissent. [1]: http://i.imgur.com/akfcNkJ.gif http://i.imgur.com/akfcNkJ.gif [2]: http://www.paulgraham.com/say.html http://www.paulgraham.com/say.html
- nostrademons 11y ago
  Nah, some individuals are pretty good at being balanced. Such individuals are unremarkable and not very vocal, and so you never pay attention to them on the Internet. If you want balance, you need to seek it out, both consciously asking people with measured responses what they mean and discounting people who hold extreme viewpoints.

chavesn 11y ago

Yesterday, when The Boring Front-end Developer was posted, the top commentary[1] seemed generally critical of the change-averse attitude. The TL;DR was "this is technology industry, new stuff is good. Get used to it." Front-end code preprocessors, recent build systems and package managers, new-age frameworks (Angular), "Universal JS", and SPAs would all fit into this category. Some tend to be skeptical, some are evangelists. There is a line in the sand, and while most developers don't fall clearly on either side, taken in aggregate, the line is visible. I quite liked the BFED post. However, I submitted this because I think it makes persuasive counter-points. Given the negative tone yesterday, I thought the crowd here might be more receptive to the more forward-thinking mindset. What's fascinating to me is that, even with nearly directly opposing viewpoints, the commentary on both HN discussion threads is actually quite critical. [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9879172 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9879172

kvcrawford 11y ago

TIL I am cool. Finally!

serve_yay 11y ago

One thing the "boring/cool" divide doesn't capture is that a certain amount of the so-called cool kid shit involves an attempt to revive computing ideas that are about 50 years old.

stuaxo 11y ago

Somebody needs to concentrate on the boring stuff... in particular, making sure all the stuff on npm etc actually works... The few times I try and use "hipster stuff", like yeoman generators, they don't really work out the box, and it feels like I could have spent that time manually getting things working, also a lot of complexity is added. In a similar way, the churn rate of JS libs is just absolutely insane. From - a boring backend developer.