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What's the point of being a Chief Engineer if you can't even get some software (the mod tools) written? That seems like an awfully low bar for someone in that p

by Cacti 11y ago

What's the point of being a Chief Engineer if you can't even get some software (the mod tools) written? That seems like an awfully low bar for someone in that position, and to throw in the towel after she barely started seems to speak more to her character than any problems with Reddit. I mean... you hire someone for a top technical position and they quit when the first bump comes along? That's ridiculous.

untog 11y ago
A Chief Engineer still has a budget, a CEO and a board to answer to. The budget is especially important - if a promise is made to deliver X and Y within six months but you can't hire enough developers to get it done then even the most talented Engineer in the world is going to fail.
- Cacti 11y ago
  So move the dates. These things aren't set in stone and part of her job is to convince the board and everyone else what is realistic and what isn't, convince them that X requires Y budget and Z time and what the risks are and that the investment is worth it and so on.
  - amyjess 11y ago
    It's possible that she resigned after she tried that and they blew her off.
    - Cacti 11y ago
      True, and if that's why she left that's fine with me.
      - EliRivers 11y ago
        You'll be pleased to hear that she really values you being fine with it, as do we all.
  - glomph 11y ago
    spez the CEO has made public time commitments for certain updates.
vessenes 11y ago
I would guess it's more like "I will be building out the product we needed all along, but now with intense board scrutiny, half the budget I wanted, a quarter the timeline we need, and a new CEO (who I may not like). I'm rich enough that I don't have to put up with this shit. See you guys."
- hderms 11y ago
  Yeah, I don't blame her at all for leaving. Reddit seems like an incredibly poorly run company.
- Killswitch 11y ago
  > and a new CEO (who I may not like) Spez isn't just a "New CEO" he's the original programmer, CEO and co-founder of Reddit. He understands the community more than anyone could fathom someone could. Of all choices I think he's the best choice. He's focusing on bringing better mod tools, so being the technical lead, I'd be excited for these bumps coming up, not running away with my tail between my legs.
  - untog 11y ago
    Honestly, if I were Chief Engineer the idea of the original programmer becoming CEO would be a potential nightmare.
  - nostrademons 11y ago
    I think Spez is a good choice, probably the best choice, but remember that he's been working on a different, unrelated startup for 5 years now. A lot changes in 5 years. The Reddit community now absolutely isn't the Reddit community that existed 5 years ago, the Reddit codebase isn't the same as it was 5 years ago, the Reddit employee base and corporate structure isn't the same. It'll be interesting to see how well he adapts to the situation as it is now.
zentiggr 11y ago
Unless she got in the position, took one look around and realized there was no way to get to the goals stated... in the long term, better to move on, do something else than get stuck with the bag of poop once the musical chairs are done. I have no idea what's going on inside reddit, just my two cents / devil's advocate thing.
minimaxir 11y ago
> That seems like an awfully low bar for someone in that position Given that Reddit has repeatedly said "our infrastructure/codebase is super-complicated" every time users have complained about server stability and the lack of features, that might actually be the truth, and being Chief Engineer is a task that's doomed to fail.
- davidgerard 11y ago
  The schema was written by Tony the Pony in collaboration with Zalgo. Everyone I've ever known to look at the codebase ran away screaming with bleeding eyeballs.
- thearn4 11y ago
  whoo boy, I recently did a contract job deploying a clone of reddit (directly using their source code on Github), and yes... it is a gigantic mess of ugly crap code and bizarre design decisions. I'm kind of surprised it works as well as it does.
  - jedberg 11y ago
    It was last designed eight years ago and the design hasn't changed much since. It's not surprising that you found it messy.
argos 11y ago
there is not only the fact that they need to be developed... if I remember correctly they gave dates to have them in production. maybe she felt she could not have them done on time.
mrgoldenbrown 11y ago
You have no basis on which to attack her character. Circumstances have changed significantly since she started. Why is your first assumption that she's weak? Victoria was fired for standing up for users. Maybe Bethanye was being put in a similar position and wanted to leave on her own terms rather than compromise her ideals.
- Cacti 11y ago
  He now, I'm not attacking her character, and I'm not calling her weak. What I'm saying is that there is no possible way anyone in that position, in that span of time, with all the personnel changes going on, could possibly understand the problem well enough both in technical terms and in terms of the management and resources and budget, to come to a reasonable conclusion that it's just impossible. Now, perhaps there is something else going on, like you said, and in which case, well, that's her decision and right to do whatever she wants. But that's not what she's saying.
  - rsynnott 11y ago
    She may well just have no confidence in reddit's current leadership, of course. Given the recent amazing behaviour by the founder and various ex-CEOs, that would hardly be entirely unreasonable. The whole thing looks like a complete mess.
  - WalterSear 11y ago
    IMHO, a couple of months is plenty of time to survey a codebase and a company's political landscape.
throw7 11y ago
It's possible she liked what pao was doing and she did say outright pao was setup (glass cliff) and "indirect" gender discrimination at play. So, just sayin' what she may be sayin', it's not the technical, but social problems at play.

by Cacti 11y ago

untog 11y ago

A Chief Engineer still has a budget, a CEO and a board to answer to. The budget is especially important - if a promise is made to deliver X and Y within six months but you can't hire enough developers to get it done then even the most talented Engineer in the world is going to fail.

Cacti 11y ago
So move the dates. These things aren't set in stone and part of her job is to convince the board and everyone else what is realistic and what isn't, convince them that X requires Y budget and Z time and what the risks are and that the investment is worth it and so on.
- amyjess 11y ago
  It's possible that she resigned after she tried that and they blew her off.
  - Cacti 11y ago
    True, and if that's why she left that's fine with me.
    - EliRivers 11y ago
      You'll be pleased to hear that she really values you being fine with it, as do we all.
- glomph 11y ago
  spez the CEO has made public time commitments for certain updates.

vessenes 11y ago

I would guess it's more like "I will be building out the product we needed all along, but now with intense board scrutiny, half the budget I wanted, a quarter the timeline we need, and a new CEO (who I may not like). I'm rich enough that I don't have to put up with this shit. See you guys."

hderms 11y ago
Yeah, I don't blame her at all for leaving. Reddit seems like an incredibly poorly run company.
Killswitch 11y ago
> and a new CEO (who I may not like) Spez isn't just a "New CEO" he's the original programmer, CEO and co-founder of Reddit. He understands the community more than anyone could fathom someone could. Of all choices I think he's the best choice. He's focusing on bringing better mod tools, so being the technical lead, I'd be excited for these bumps coming up, not running away with my tail between my legs.
- untog 11y ago
  Honestly, if I were Chief Engineer the idea of the original programmer becoming CEO would be a potential nightmare.
- nostrademons 11y ago
  I think Spez is a good choice, probably the best choice, but remember that he's been working on a different, unrelated startup for 5 years now. A lot changes in 5 years. The Reddit community now absolutely isn't the Reddit community that existed 5 years ago, the Reddit codebase isn't the same as it was 5 years ago, the Reddit employee base and corporate structure isn't the same. It'll be interesting to see how well he adapts to the situation as it is now.

zentiggr 11y ago

Unless she got in the position, took one look around and realized there was no way to get to the goals stated... in the long term, better to move on, do something else than get stuck with the bag of poop once the musical chairs are done. I have no idea what's going on inside reddit, just my two cents / devil's advocate thing.

minimaxir 11y ago

> That seems like an awfully low bar for someone in that position Given that Reddit has repeatedly said "our infrastructure/codebase is super-complicated" every time users have complained about server stability and the lack of features, that might actually be the truth, and being Chief Engineer is a task that's doomed to fail.

davidgerard 11y ago
The schema was written by Tony the Pony in collaboration with Zalgo. Everyone I've ever known to look at the codebase ran away screaming with bleeding eyeballs.
thearn4 11y ago
whoo boy, I recently did a contract job deploying a clone of reddit (directly using their source code on Github), and yes... it is a gigantic mess of ugly crap code and bizarre design decisions. I'm kind of surprised it works as well as it does.
- jedberg 11y ago
  It was last designed eight years ago and the design hasn't changed much since. It's not surprising that you found it messy.

argos 11y ago

there is not only the fact that they need to be developed... if I remember correctly they gave dates to have them in production. maybe she felt she could not have them done on time.

mrgoldenbrown 11y ago

You have no basis on which to attack her character. Circumstances have changed significantly since she started. Why is your first assumption that she's weak? Victoria was fired for standing up for users. Maybe Bethanye was being put in a similar position and wanted to leave on her own terms rather than compromise her ideals.

Cacti 11y ago
He now, I'm not attacking her character, and I'm not calling her weak. What I'm saying is that there is no possible way anyone in that position, in that span of time, with all the personnel changes going on, could possibly understand the problem well enough both in technical terms and in terms of the management and resources and budget, to come to a reasonable conclusion that it's just impossible. Now, perhaps there is something else going on, like you said, and in which case, well, that's her decision and right to do whatever she wants. But that's not what she's saying.
- rsynnott 11y ago
  She may well just have no confidence in reddit's current leadership, of course. Given the recent amazing behaviour by the founder and various ex-CEOs, that would hardly be entirely unreasonable. The whole thing looks like a complete mess.
- WalterSear 11y ago
  IMHO, a couple of months is plenty of time to survey a codebase and a company's political landscape.

throw7 11y ago

It's possible she liked what pao was doing and she did say outright pao was setup (glass cliff) and "indirect" gender discrimination at play. So, just sayin' what she may be sayin', it's not the technical, but social problems at play.