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Egoistical showman. Not able to listen. Not able to compromise. Using inapropriate language (waterboarding, terrorist - insulting people who endure real waterbo

Egoistical showman. Not able to listen. Not able to compromise. Using inapropriate language (waterboarding, terrorist - insulting people who endure real waterboarding and/or are hurt by terrorist). Doesn't stop shooting at Schäuble (Germany), but in truth he was opposed by 19 European countries. External pressure is needed. Stoneage lefties like to discuss, well, preach, all day long while spending other (EU) citizen's money. Greece will be saved when he and the anarcho-communist-syndicalist grufties start to modernize greece, e.g. do something again the blatant corruption, burocratie and tax evasion instead of hindering startups, business and innovative people. Imho.

RobertoG 11y ago
Sure, not able to listen and not able to compromise define the Greek side in all this. Where have you been? The policies imposed to Greece don't make more sense this time that they did the last time, and the last, and the last. But yes, we should all listen to the wise neoliberal policymakers, including the humble Herr Schäuble.
- pgeorgi 11y ago
  Schäuble, who maintained the funds of his party in the 90s and insists that he forgot about some 100k DM of unaccounted donations in an envelope (and by an arms dealer, no less). Schäuble, who presides over the public KfW-Bank, which hosts the Greek recovery fund, where 15bn EUR in Greek assets are supposed to end up. I wonder which transactions will be 'lost' this time.
agd 11y ago
Unfortunately it is the Eurogroup who are not willing to listen or compromise. The IMF reports (including one leaked today http://news.forexlive.com/!/imf-finally-says-what-they-think-about-greece-20150714 http://news.forexlive.com/!/imf-finally-says-what-they-think...) shows that Varoufakis was right all along and the debt is unsustainable, yet the Eurogroup does not listen and won't consider debt restructuring but wants to continue with the same failed and discredited policies.
- junto 11y ago
  I agree. The Eurogroup's real final target in this whole thing is France. The Germans want France to change their culture (pensions, social system, etc), but France is too big a target to go for straight off the bat. Varoufakis stated: "Based on months of negotiation, my conviction is that the German finance minister wants Greece to be pushed out of the single currency to put the fear of God into the French and have them accept his model of a disciplinarian eurozone." Therefore they are playing the long game, and for that to work, Greece needs to capitulate and exit the Euro. The Eurogroup has tried to make it impossible for Greece to stay in the Euro, but Greece won't bite. Once Greece do exit the Euro, the rest of Europe will see the incredible pain that is involved when your national banks have the rugs pulled out from underneath them. Once France understands that they have to change or end up like Greece, they'll change. They'll have no choice. It is an economic invasion at state level.
  - Mikeb85 11y ago
    > The Germans want France to change their culture (pensions, social system, etc), but France is too big a target to go for straight off the bat. France will leave the Eurozone before that happens. There's already discontent with the EU and Euro in France, nationalists rising, etc... And they're a strong enough economy that leaving the Euro wouldn't leave them with worthless francs...
    - junto 11y ago
      The undelying point Schauble is subtly trying to make is that you cannot switch back to an alternative currency without help from outsiders. Iraq needed US help, as was recently noted in the Guardian: "In occupied Iraq, the introduction of new paper money took almost a year, 20 or so Boeing 747s, the mobilisation of the US military’s might, three printing firms and hundreds of trucks. In the absence of such support, Grexit would be the equivalent of announcing a large devaluation more than 18 months in advance: a recipe for liquidating all Greek capital stock and transferring it abroad by any means available." You think France could go back to the Franc without outside help? I highly doubt it. The point Schauble is trying to make is that if France wants to go the way of Greece, it would only involve lots and lots of pain. Abide by their rules, or else.
Mikeb85 11y ago
And this response shows that you know nothing about economics or finance. > do something again the blatant corruption, burocratie and tax evasion Corruption and tax evasion are an economic problem, not a moral one. People decide whether or not to pay taxes based on many factors - convenience, value, habit, punishment, etc... In a 'developing' economy, like Greece, if there's a history of not paying taxes, you need to provide incentive to pay taxes. Because if you all of a sudden raise taxes and enforce it hard, you don't get tax evasion - you get capital flight, which is much, much worse for the economy. And it's all too easy to move around in the Eurozone. > Stoneage lefties like to discuss, well, preach, all day long while spending other (EU) citizen's money. Greece did not spend other EU citizen's money. They sold bonds at the market rate to banks and investors that BOUGHT them, and their debt spending was entirely sustainable up to the financial crisis (not sure if you've heard about it) which rocked the whole world. The troika bailed out those banks, with the vast majority of the "EU citizens' money" going to those banks and only a fraction of this money ever made its way to Greece. > instead of hindering startups, business and innovative people You know what hinders startups, business, and innovative people? A repressive tax regime. Like the one the troika imposed on Greece...
- MrBuddyCasino 11y ago
  > Corruption and tax evasion are an economic problem, not a moral one. Not true. The Greek state has traditionally been seen as an enemy of the citizen and something to take advantage of. This is due to the muchtar system established hundreds of years ago by the Osman empire, establishing clientilism. E.g. Estonia is much better on all these metrics, but income levels are similar or below Greece. > Greece did not spend other EU citizen's money They took advantage of having access to "Germany's credit card", with interest rates dropping from 25% to 5% post Drachme. Then they proceeded to consume that money. Even in 2014, the public and private consumption relative to net national income was at 114% [1], a completely unsustainable level. If Europe wasn't financing elevated standards of living for Greece before the crisis, they certainly did in the last few years. [1] http://www.cesifo-group.de/ifoHome/publications/docbase/details.html?docId=19161354 http://www.cesifo-group.de/ifoHome/publications/docbase/deta... > You know what hinders startups, business, and innovative people? A repressive tax regime. New York and California have comparatively high tax rates, enormous housing costs and expensive wages. They seem to be doing just fine. Also see Germany, Austria, Switzerland and all of the Scandinavian countries.
justaaron 11y ago
I disagree vehemently. The austerity and bailouts so far have been a punitive process that has achieved either an undesired effect or the specific goal of: 1) destroying the economy. no growth. no way to achieve the surplus targets mandated. no way to exit debt. now, it's a set up. that's the premise of his statements in this article. you disagree or character assassinate, either or, but you don't propose an alternative except the tired lines about Greeks spending other peoples money. Go. learn something. come back when you know something about international finance, the Eurogroup, the ECB, the last 5 years of austerity, the last 2 Greek governments, the German Sub deal (anecdotal, not endemic, but representative of the nature of such transactions) and the macro economics of how +-5 million people shall fare over the next 20-50 years. You come across as a jerk, mean-spirited, and ignorant. Your comment was troll bait and more insulting than any of the articles rhetoric. You use the term "leftie" to describe folks of any political persuasion who make take umbrage at the blatant mafia structure at the core of the euro (currency) laid bare over the last weeks. Please DO go study a bit before you show your face around here again. Thanks Aaron
pfg 11y ago
When the financial crisis hit, almost every country on this planet increased public spending and introduced stimulus package after stimulus package in order to help the economy back on its feet. Greece is in a situation where their economy desperately needs any kind of stimulus. Instead, the rest of Europe decides to make an example of them by forcing them to implement austerity measures that target the masses (and not the tax-evading elite) because that is the fastest way to collect more taxes and cut public spending in a short timeframe (VAT increases, pension cuts). This is the total opposite of what Europe was doing when they were hit by the crisis. Obviously, the European leadership wasn't happy when someone who understood this and was willing to speak up about it came into power in Greece. Luckily, the media was happy as ever to make this a human interest story and focused on Varoufakis' lifestyle instead of actually looking at what they were trying to achieve and how Greece was in an impossible situation. They've been in power for about 6 months now and are somehow responsible for all the tax evasion, public spending mistakes and, really, anything else Greece gets blamed for.
paulojreis 11y ago
> Stoneage lefties like to discuss, well, preach, all day long while spending other (EU) citizen's money What did you find particularly "stoneage" in his ideas? It's not the first time I notice criticism (a rather empty one) of "left ideas" based on "being old". Isn't it a little non-sensical, to criticize ideas for being old?
jazzyk 11y ago
I think of myself as a moderate libertarian, so I may not agree with Mr Varoufakis. But I sure can appreciate him speaking English rather than some bureaucratic newspeak that is the norm among elected (and non-elected) officials. And I can appreciate that he deeply cares for his people over holding on to his government job. I will take occasional hyperboles over content-free mambo-jumbo any time.
dang 11y ago
> Stoneage lefties [...] anarcho-communist-syndicalist grufties "When disagreeing, please reply to the argument instead of calling names." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

RobertoG 11y ago

Sure, not able to listen and not able to compromise define the Greek side in all this. Where have you been? The policies imposed to Greece don't make more sense this time that they did the last time, and the last, and the last. But yes, we should all listen to the wise neoliberal policymakers, including the humble Herr Schäuble.

pgeorgi 11y ago
Schäuble, who maintained the funds of his party in the 90s and insists that he forgot about some 100k DM of unaccounted donations in an envelope (and by an arms dealer, no less). Schäuble, who presides over the public KfW-Bank, which hosts the Greek recovery fund, where 15bn EUR in Greek assets are supposed to end up. I wonder which transactions will be 'lost' this time.

agd 11y ago

Unfortunately it is the Eurogroup who are not willing to listen or compromise. The IMF reports (including one leaked today http://news.forexlive.com/!/imf-finally-says-what-they-think-about-greece-20150714 http://news.forexlive.com/!/imf-finally-says-what-they-think...) shows that Varoufakis was right all along and the debt is unsustainable, yet the Eurogroup does not listen and won't consider debt restructuring but wants to continue with the same failed and discredited policies.

junto 11y ago
I agree. The Eurogroup's real final target in this whole thing is France. The Germans want France to change their culture (pensions, social system, etc), but France is too big a target to go for straight off the bat. Varoufakis stated: "Based on months of negotiation, my conviction is that the German finance minister wants Greece to be pushed out of the single currency to put the fear of God into the French and have them accept his model of a disciplinarian eurozone." Therefore they are playing the long game, and for that to work, Greece needs to capitulate and exit the Euro. The Eurogroup has tried to make it impossible for Greece to stay in the Euro, but Greece won't bite. Once Greece do exit the Euro, the rest of Europe will see the incredible pain that is involved when your national banks have the rugs pulled out from underneath them. Once France understands that they have to change or end up like Greece, they'll change. They'll have no choice. It is an economic invasion at state level.
- Mikeb85 11y ago
  > The Germans want France to change their culture (pensions, social system, etc), but France is too big a target to go for straight off the bat. France will leave the Eurozone before that happens. There's already discontent with the EU and Euro in France, nationalists rising, etc... And they're a strong enough economy that leaving the Euro wouldn't leave them with worthless francs...
  - junto 11y ago
    The undelying point Schauble is subtly trying to make is that you cannot switch back to an alternative currency without help from outsiders. Iraq needed US help, as was recently noted in the Guardian: "In occupied Iraq, the introduction of new paper money took almost a year, 20 or so Boeing 747s, the mobilisation of the US military’s might, three printing firms and hundreds of trucks. In the absence of such support, Grexit would be the equivalent of announcing a large devaluation more than 18 months in advance: a recipe for liquidating all Greek capital stock and transferring it abroad by any means available." You think France could go back to the Franc without outside help? I highly doubt it. The point Schauble is trying to make is that if France wants to go the way of Greece, it would only involve lots and lots of pain. Abide by their rules, or else.

Mikeb85 11y ago

And this response shows that you know nothing about economics or finance. > do something again the blatant corruption, burocratie and tax evasion Corruption and tax evasion are an economic problem, not a moral one. People decide whether or not to pay taxes based on many factors - convenience, value, habit, punishment, etc... In a 'developing' economy, like Greece, if there's a history of not paying taxes, you need to provide incentive to pay taxes. Because if you all of a sudden raise taxes and enforce it hard, you don't get tax evasion - you get capital flight, which is much, much worse for the economy. And it's all too easy to move around in the Eurozone. > Stoneage lefties like to discuss, well, preach, all day long while spending other (EU) citizen's money. Greece did not spend other EU citizen's money. They sold bonds at the market rate to banks and investors that BOUGHT them, and their debt spending was entirely sustainable up to the financial crisis (not sure if you've heard about it) which rocked the whole world. The troika bailed out those banks, with the vast majority of the "EU citizens' money" going to those banks and only a fraction of this money ever made its way to Greece. > instead of hindering startups, business and innovative people You know what hinders startups, business, and innovative people? A repressive tax regime. Like the one the troika imposed on Greece...

MrBuddyCasino 11y ago
> Corruption and tax evasion are an economic problem, not a moral one. Not true. The Greek state has traditionally been seen as an enemy of the citizen and something to take advantage of. This is due to the muchtar system established hundreds of years ago by the Osman empire, establishing clientilism. E.g. Estonia is much better on all these metrics, but income levels are similar or below Greece. > Greece did not spend other EU citizen's money They took advantage of having access to "Germany's credit card", with interest rates dropping from 25% to 5% post Drachme. Then they proceeded to consume that money. Even in 2014, the public and private consumption relative to net national income was at 114% [1], a completely unsustainable level. If Europe wasn't financing elevated standards of living for Greece before the crisis, they certainly did in the last few years. [1] http://www.cesifo-group.de/ifoHome/publications/docbase/details.html?docId=19161354 http://www.cesifo-group.de/ifoHome/publications/docbase/deta... > You know what hinders startups, business, and innovative people? A repressive tax regime. New York and California have comparatively high tax rates, enormous housing costs and expensive wages. They seem to be doing just fine. Also see Germany, Austria, Switzerland and all of the Scandinavian countries.

justaaron 11y ago

I disagree vehemently. The austerity and bailouts so far have been a punitive process that has achieved either an undesired effect or the specific goal of: 1) destroying the economy. no growth. no way to achieve the surplus targets mandated. no way to exit debt. now, it's a set up. that's the premise of his statements in this article. you disagree or character assassinate, either or, but you don't propose an alternative except the tired lines about Greeks spending other peoples money. Go. learn something. come back when you know something about international finance, the Eurogroup, the ECB, the last 5 years of austerity, the last 2 Greek governments, the German Sub deal (anecdotal, not endemic, but representative of the nature of such transactions) and the macro economics of how +-5 million people shall fare over the next 20-50 years. You come across as a jerk, mean-spirited, and ignorant. Your comment was troll bait and more insulting than any of the articles rhetoric. You use the term "leftie" to describe folks of any political persuasion who make take umbrage at the blatant mafia structure at the core of the euro (currency) laid bare over the last weeks. Please DO go study a bit before you show your face around here again. Thanks Aaron

pfg 11y ago

When the financial crisis hit, almost every country on this planet increased public spending and introduced stimulus package after stimulus package in order to help the economy back on its feet. Greece is in a situation where their economy desperately needs any kind of stimulus. Instead, the rest of Europe decides to make an example of them by forcing them to implement austerity measures that target the masses (and not the tax-evading elite) because that is the fastest way to collect more taxes and cut public spending in a short timeframe (VAT increases, pension cuts). This is the total opposite of what Europe was doing when they were hit by the crisis. Obviously, the European leadership wasn't happy when someone who understood this and was willing to speak up about it came into power in Greece. Luckily, the media was happy as ever to make this a human interest story and focused on Varoufakis' lifestyle instead of actually looking at what they were trying to achieve and how Greece was in an impossible situation. They've been in power for about 6 months now and are somehow responsible for all the tax evasion, public spending mistakes and, really, anything else Greece gets blamed for.

paulojreis 11y ago

> Stoneage lefties like to discuss, well, preach, all day long while spending other (EU) citizen's money What did you find particularly "stoneage" in his ideas? It's not the first time I notice criticism (a rather empty one) of "left ideas" based on "being old". Isn't it a little non-sensical, to criticize ideas for being old?

jazzyk 11y ago

I think of myself as a moderate libertarian, so I may not agree with Mr Varoufakis. But I sure can appreciate him speaking English rather than some bureaucratic newspeak that is the norm among elected (and non-elected) officials. And I can appreciate that he deeply cares for his people over holding on to his government job. I will take occasional hyperboles over content-free mambo-jumbo any time.

dang 11y ago

> Stoneage lefties [...] anarcho-communist-syndicalist grufties "When disagreeing, please reply to the argument instead of calling names." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html