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I know you are being rhetorical but even New York Times would agree the Greek government is more corrupt than the German government. Some level of corruption is

I know you are being rhetorical but even New York Times would agree the Greek government is more corrupt than the German government. Some level of corruption is inevitable in every ruling class; an old Chinese saying is that pure water has no fish: no one will work in a graft-free institution. Your rhetorics is not helpful at the current critical juncture; cooler heads must prevail. It is far more important to consider whether the existing economic, financial, and political arrangement is sustainable and whether Greeks may be better off with a clean slate. A massive European aid program is necessary in any case and the current level of Greek debt is unrealistic. Why not acknowledge the facts and spend money on people to help them get back on their feet and at least reap political good-will, which is sorely lacking right now. Muddling through has not worked so far. If a fourth bailout becomes necessary, it will be a political earthquake with strategic implication for the rest of the world. God, I hope it does not come to pass.

peterfirefly 11y ago
> Why not acknowledge the facts and spend money on people to help them get back on their feet and at least reap political good-will, which is sorely lacking right now. Because giving Greece more free money will not make the Greeks reform their country. Debt relief would just mean that they could borrow more money on the market and let the party continue. Debt relief (even more than the huge amounts they've already received and squandered) is very much in the cards and has been all the time, if only they would reform.
- ZenoArrow 11y ago
  "Debt relief (even more than the huge amounts they've already received and squandered) is very much in the cards and has been all the time, if only they would reform." Debt relief has been discussed, but has been blocked by the German government, even despite the German finance minister admitting the debt was unsustainable... http://uk.mobile.reuters.com/article/idUKL8N0ZP3P720150709?irpc=932 http://uk.mobile.reuters.com/article/idUKL8N0ZP3P720150709?i... "Europe's legal set-up therefore gives government leaders sufficient space to strike a debt restructuring of some kind for Greece if they want to. The issue is how far they go with any reprofiling as part of a potential deal with Greece. German Finance Minister Wolfgang Schaeuble said on Thursday the IMF was correct in saying Greece's debt was not sustainable without a haircut, but he added: "I think the leeway we have ... is very low.""
grey-area 11y ago
I know you are being rhetorical but even New York Times would agree the Greek government is more corrupt than the German government. I was trying to point out the moral relativism at work in painting Greece as a hotbed of corruption, and Germany as paragon of financial virtue. What I think is not helpful here are moral arguments over debt full stop. Nation states are neither moral nor people, and you can't 'teach them a lesson' which is the basis of much rhetoric around Greece at present.

peterfirefly 11y ago

> Why not acknowledge the facts and spend money on people to help them get back on their feet and at least reap political good-will, which is sorely lacking right now. Because giving Greece more free money will not make the Greeks reform their country. Debt relief would just mean that they could borrow more money on the market and let the party continue. Debt relief (even more than the huge amounts they've already received and squandered) is very much in the cards and has been all the time, if only they would reform.

ZenoArrow 11y ago
"Debt relief (even more than the huge amounts they've already received and squandered) is very much in the cards and has been all the time, if only they would reform." Debt relief has been discussed, but has been blocked by the German government, even despite the German finance minister admitting the debt was unsustainable... http://uk.mobile.reuters.com/article/idUKL8N0ZP3P720150709?irpc=932 http://uk.mobile.reuters.com/article/idUKL8N0ZP3P720150709?i... "Europe's legal set-up therefore gives government leaders sufficient space to strike a debt restructuring of some kind for Greece if they want to. The issue is how far they go with any reprofiling as part of a potential deal with Greece. German Finance Minister Wolfgang Schaeuble said on Thursday the IMF was correct in saying Greece's debt was not sustainable without a haircut, but he added: "I think the leeway we have ... is very low.""

grey-area 11y ago

I know you are being rhetorical but even New York Times would agree the Greek government is more corrupt than the German government. I was trying to point out the moral relativism at work in painting Greece as a hotbed of corruption, and Germany as paragon of financial virtue. What I think is not helpful here are moral arguments over debt full stop. Nation states are neither moral nor people, and you can't 'teach them a lesson' which is the basis of much rhetoric around Greece at present.