4 ms·

> It is clearly meant according to the Maastricht criteria: It was not clear to me, but thank you for the explanation. What insanity that the European nations

> It is clearly meant according to the Maastricht criteria: It was not clear to me, but thank you for the explanation. What insanity that the European nations would cripple their economic tools with a treaty like this. There are times when debt/GDP absolutely should be in great excess of 3%, and times when debt must be greater than 60%, and no country should require 'approval' to tackle their own economic problems. Fortunately, I suppose, it looks like these sections of the treaty are not enforced very strongly.

toyg 11y ago
> it looks like these sections of the treaty are not enforced very strongly. Or at all, for certain countries. Germany and France routinely break pretty much any parameter, in various directions, and absolutely nothing happens. But as soon as a minnow spends a little bit more, oooh boy...
- wolfgke 11y ago
  > Or at all, for certain countries. Germany and France routinely break pretty much any parameter, in various directions, and absolutely nothing happens. Germany has been very strict on their own budget in the last four years and tries hard to satisfy the Masstricht criteria. For the following data, cf. http://www.tagesschau.de/wirtschaft/wirtschaftsdaten104.html http://www.tagesschau.de/wirtschaft/wirtschaftsdaten104.html budget deficit/surplus of EU countries (% of GDP) (Haushaltsdefizite/-überschuss der EU-Länder): -3 is allowed, Germany has 2012: +0,1 % 2013: +0,1 % 2914: +0,7 % 2015 (estimate): +0,6 % 2016 (estimate): +0,5 % which is (IMHO) exemplary. From the Maastricht criteria only "total debt (% of GDP)" (Gesamtschulden (in % des BIP)) is problematic, since there only 60% is allowed. But also here Germany is working very hard to satisfy this criterion: 2012: 79,3 % 2013: 77,1 % 2014: 74,7 % 2015 (estimate): 71,5 % 2016 (estimate): 68,2 %
  - gutnor 11y ago
    Well it does illustrate how transient "exemplary" is. Ireland and Spain were exemplary in the years leading to the crisis, beating Germany in the debt and surplus metrics.[0][1] Media like to show "feel good metric" to put a patriotic positive spin (us good, them bad) on the result of regular political arm-wrestling between temporarily weaker countries. You won't see those metric in France however the media will use different things to achieve the same effect. The idea is to build a moral high horse so that your people can forget that over there, few people have benefited but a lot will pay. [0] http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/tgm/table.do?tab=table&init=1&language=en&pcode=teina225&plugin=1 http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/tgm/table.do?tab=table&init=1&l... [1] http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/tgm/table.do?tab=table&plugin=1&language=en&pcode=teina200 http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/tgm/table.do?tab=table&plugin=1...
  - toyg 11y ago
    Yes, but the Euro wasn't created in the last 4 years: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16761087 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16761087 "In 2003, France and Germany had both overspent, and their budget deficits had exceeded the 3% of GDP limit to which they were legally bound." Both countries basically spent their way out of their economic downturns, then told everyone else not to do that.
nickik 11y ago
These rules were made to convince people that what is happening now would not be happening. Many parties, have on good faith exepted the EU because of this rules. However nobody cared to enforce them, theirfore the EU is based on lies and would never have been exepted by any voter if it had been known.

toyg 11y ago

> it looks like these sections of the treaty are not enforced very strongly. Or at all, for certain countries. Germany and France routinely break pretty much any parameter, in various directions, and absolutely nothing happens. But as soon as a minnow spends a little bit more, oooh boy...

wolfgke 11y ago
> Or at all, for certain countries. Germany and France routinely break pretty much any parameter, in various directions, and absolutely nothing happens. Germany has been very strict on their own budget in the last four years and tries hard to satisfy the Masstricht criteria. For the following data, cf. http://www.tagesschau.de/wirtschaft/wirtschaftsdaten104.html http://www.tagesschau.de/wirtschaft/wirtschaftsdaten104.html budget deficit/surplus of EU countries (% of GDP) (Haushaltsdefizite/-überschuss der EU-Länder): -3 is allowed, Germany has 2012: +0,1 % 2013: +0,1 % 2914: +0,7 % 2015 (estimate): +0,6 % 2016 (estimate): +0,5 % which is (IMHO) exemplary. From the Maastricht criteria only "total debt (% of GDP)" (Gesamtschulden (in % des BIP)) is problematic, since there only 60% is allowed. But also here Germany is working very hard to satisfy this criterion: 2012: 79,3 % 2013: 77,1 % 2014: 74,7 % 2015 (estimate): 71,5 % 2016 (estimate): 68,2 %
- gutnor 11y ago
  Well it does illustrate how transient "exemplary" is. Ireland and Spain were exemplary in the years leading to the crisis, beating Germany in the debt and surplus metrics.[0][1] Media like to show "feel good metric" to put a patriotic positive spin (us good, them bad) on the result of regular political arm-wrestling between temporarily weaker countries. You won't see those metric in France however the media will use different things to achieve the same effect. The idea is to build a moral high horse so that your people can forget that over there, few people have benefited but a lot will pay. [0] http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/tgm/table.do?tab=table&init=1&language=en&pcode=teina225&plugin=1 http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/tgm/table.do?tab=table&init=1&l... [1] http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/tgm/table.do?tab=table&plugin=1&language=en&pcode=teina200 http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/tgm/table.do?tab=table&plugin=1...
- toyg 11y ago
  Yes, but the Euro wasn't created in the last 4 years: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16761087 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16761087 "In 2003, France and Germany had both overspent, and their budget deficits had exceeded the 3% of GDP limit to which they were legally bound." Both countries basically spent their way out of their economic downturns, then told everyone else not to do that.

nickik 11y ago

These rules were made to convince people that what is happening now would not be happening. Many parties, have on good faith exepted the EU because of this rules. However nobody cared to enforce them, theirfore the EU is based on lies and would never have been exepted by any voter if it had been known.