8 ms·

Finnish study: Smoking and drinking coffee might prevent Parkinson's disease

51 points by velmu 11y ago

velmu 11y ago
So what does this mean? It's either senile and healthy or smart, but dying? Damn, son.
- soylentcola 11y ago
  Thankfully, there are ways to ingest caffeine and nicotine that don't involve smoking coffee grounds or tobacco leaves. Drinking coffee or using transdermal or vaporized nicotine solution could offer the benefits without the health risks of inhaling tars and the carcinogenic products of combustion.
  - afsina 11y ago
    Perhaps eating eggplants may help too?
  - mseebach 11y ago
    But the correlation is between smoking and drinking coffee, not receiving a certain amount of nicotine and caffeine. Indeed, the linked abstract talks about gut biome - it's unlikely that a nicotine patch on your thigh is going to affect your gut biome in the same way actual smoke in your throat is.
- dgiesberg 11y ago
  Parkinson's is a movement disorder, not dementia-related (you're probably thinking of Alzheimer's).
  - Cass 11y ago
    Parkinson's long list of possible symptoms includes both movement disorders and dementia.
pella 11y ago
other research ("Parkinson disease and smoking revisited") " Objective: To assess whether being able to quit smoking is an early marker of Parkinson disease (PD) onset rather than tobacco being “neuroprotective,” we analyzed information about ease of quitting and nicotine substitute use. Methods: For this case-control study, we identified 1,808 patients with PD diagnosed between 1996 and 2009 from Danish registries, matched 1,876 population controls on sex and year of birth, and collected lifestyle information. We estimated odds ratios and 95% confidence intervals with logistic regression adjusting for matching factors and confounders. Results: Fewer patients with PD than controls ever established a smoking habit. Among former smokers, those with greater difficulty quitting or using nicotine substitutes were less likely to develop PD, with the risk being lowest among those reporting “extremely difficult to quit” compared with “easy to quit.” Nicotine substitute usage was strongly associated with quitting difficulty and duration of smoking, i.e., most strongly among current smokers, followed by former smokers who had used nicotine substitutes, and less strongly among former smokers who never used substitutes. Conclusions: Our data support the notion that patients with PD are able to quit smoking more easily than controls. These findings are compatible with a decreased responsiveness to nicotine during the prodromal phase of PD. We propose that ease of smoking cessation is an aspect of premanifest PD similar to olfactory dysfunction, REM sleep disorders, or constipation and suggests that the apparent “neuroprotective” effect of smoking observed in epidemiologic studies is due to reverse causation. " http://www.neurology.org/content/early/2014/09/12/WNL.0000000000000879.short http://www.neurology.org/content/early/2014/09/12/WNL.000000...
leesalminen 11y ago
Interesting. My Grandfather is 100% Finnish. He never smoked. And now he has Parkinson's. Anecdotal, I know :)
Yuioup 11y ago
"The exact cause behind the phenomena is unknown at this point." Dopamine.
- stan_rogers 11y ago
  That's the symptom, not the cause.
- stan_rogers 11y ago
  That's the symptom, not the cause.
zubirus 11y ago
The abstract reads "Nicotine addiction negatively correlates the changes of developing Parkinson's disease". I'm not a fan of the wording of the HW title to make it sound like smoking could be a good habit.
- SCAQTony 11y ago
  Seriously, I agree! Why not just take nicotine supplements in safe amounts?
twothamendment 11y ago
Maybe smoking kills you before the Parkinson's can get started? What age does it kick in for most people?
- at-fates-hands 11y ago
  Most people are diagnosed around 60. Anybody who gets it before 50 has a form that is considered "Young Onset PD" source: http://www.parkinson.org/Parkinson-s-Disease/Young-Onset-Parkinsons http://www.parkinson.org/Parkinson-s-Disease/Young-Onset-Par...
- feld 11y ago
  My dad was diagnosed at 47
- kinleyd 11y ago
  My thoughts as well. I figure smoking will kill a large proportion well before they hit the age range in which Parkinson's sets in
- meric 11y ago
  My grandmother smoker her whole life and got Parkinson's at around 85. She died at 91 from smoking-induced stomach cancer.
rogeryu 11y ago
Does anyone smoke coffee? I usually don't go any further than just smelling.
- pstuart 11y ago
  It's a very dark roast.
willholloway 11y ago
There is a much cleaner, and safer drug that can reduce the chance of developing Parkinson's, and that is Deprenyl [1]. > Deprenyl protects the nigrostriatal dopaminergic neurons against selective neurotoxins (6-hydroxydopamine, MPTP, DSP-4) [2] We know that environmental insults like solvent inhalation and most likely agricultural pesticides contribute to the loss of dopamine neurons in Parkinson's, it seems like Deprenyl has the ability to protect against the damage of some of these, as well as the effect of aging [3]. > These results suggest that (-)-deprenyl and related compounds may protect neurons from apoptosis and be applicable to delay the deterioration of neurons during advancing ageing and in neurodegenerative disorders. [3] I myself take deprenyl, or its newer cousin azilect for this purpose. It also has the benefit of increasing dopamine and it's a much lower impact focus drug than psychostimulants like amphetamines. [1] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3123604 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3123604 [2] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7669938 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7669938 [3] http://www.selegiline.com/apop.html http://www.selegiline.com/apop.html
- feld 11y ago
  are you doing this as a preventative measure? do you have a history of Parkinsons in your family or something?
  - wyldfire 11y ago
    and how old are you?
  - willholloway 11y ago
    Yes, completely preventive. I have two family members who developed it in their 70's. I am 30. Update because I can't reply re: self-experimenting: Deprenyl is an incredibly well researched molecule, with a great safety profile. We also have a lot of reason to suspect amphetamines like adderall are neurotoxic to dopamine neurons, and hence my fervent belief that deprenyl should be a first line treatment for those wishing for enhanced focus, and amphetamines should be reserved for tougher cases.
    - 11y ago
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
Bolt64 11y ago
I don't know about drinking coffee, but could the correlation with smoking just be because smokers die earlier than average, and hence never get the time to develop Parkinson's?
- jammi 11y ago
  Even smokers don't die that young, on average.
moron4hire 11y ago
I think it's kind of irresponsible to release a study like this to the popular press, especially this early before all of the correlations and causitive factors have been worked out. I remember a similar deal hitting the pop-sci press back in the 90s with regards to smoking supposedly preventing Alzheimers (that I believe was later disproven). ah, yeah, here it is: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8437692 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8437692 Half of my extended family completely ignored the part on "The 'dose-response' pattern showed the greatest risk reduction among those who smoked least" (if it ever got mentioned at all), and used it as an excuse to keep smoking for, well, as long as it took for everyone to forget the meme and go back to smoking Because Freedums! Ok, nevermind, I guess they never needed an excuse to begin with.
Gobiel 11y ago
There are other means of administering nicotine (as well as other beneficial effects): http://www.gwern.net/Nicotine http://www.gwern.net/Nicotine

51 points by velmu 11y ago

velmu 11y ago

So what does this mean? It's either senile and healthy or smart, but dying? Damn, son.

soylentcola 11y ago
Thankfully, there are ways to ingest caffeine and nicotine that don't involve smoking coffee grounds or tobacco leaves. Drinking coffee or using transdermal or vaporized nicotine solution could offer the benefits without the health risks of inhaling tars and the carcinogenic products of combustion.
- afsina 11y ago
  Perhaps eating eggplants may help too?
- mseebach 11y ago
  But the correlation is between smoking and drinking coffee, not receiving a certain amount of nicotine and caffeine. Indeed, the linked abstract talks about gut biome - it's unlikely that a nicotine patch on your thigh is going to affect your gut biome in the same way actual smoke in your throat is.
dgiesberg 11y ago
Parkinson's is a movement disorder, not dementia-related (you're probably thinking of Alzheimer's).
- Cass 11y ago
  Parkinson's long list of possible symptoms includes both movement disorders and dementia.

pella 11y ago

other research ("Parkinson disease and smoking revisited") " Objective: To assess whether being able to quit smoking is an early marker of Parkinson disease (PD) onset rather than tobacco being “neuroprotective,” we analyzed information about ease of quitting and nicotine substitute use. Methods: For this case-control study, we identified 1,808 patients with PD diagnosed between 1996 and 2009 from Danish registries, matched 1,876 population controls on sex and year of birth, and collected lifestyle information. We estimated odds ratios and 95% confidence intervals with logistic regression adjusting for matching factors and confounders. Results: Fewer patients with PD than controls ever established a smoking habit. Among former smokers, those with greater difficulty quitting or using nicotine substitutes were less likely to develop PD, with the risk being lowest among those reporting “extremely difficult to quit” compared with “easy to quit.” Nicotine substitute usage was strongly associated with quitting difficulty and duration of smoking, i.e., most strongly among current smokers, followed by former smokers who had used nicotine substitutes, and less strongly among former smokers who never used substitutes. Conclusions: Our data support the notion that patients with PD are able to quit smoking more easily than controls. These findings are compatible with a decreased responsiveness to nicotine during the prodromal phase of PD. We propose that ease of smoking cessation is an aspect of premanifest PD similar to olfactory dysfunction, REM sleep disorders, or constipation and suggests that the apparent “neuroprotective” effect of smoking observed in epidemiologic studies is due to reverse causation. " http://www.neurology.org/content/early/2014/09/12/WNL.0000000000000879.short http://www.neurology.org/content/early/2014/09/12/WNL.000000...

leesalminen 11y ago

Interesting. My Grandfather is 100% Finnish. He never smoked. And now he has Parkinson's. Anecdotal, I know :)

Yuioup 11y ago

"The exact cause behind the phenomena is unknown at this point." Dopamine.

stan_rogers 11y ago
That's the symptom, not the cause.
stan_rogers 11y ago
That's the symptom, not the cause.

zubirus 11y ago

The abstract reads "Nicotine addiction negatively correlates the changes of developing Parkinson's disease". I'm not a fan of the wording of the HW title to make it sound like smoking could be a good habit.

SCAQTony 11y ago
Seriously, I agree! Why not just take nicotine supplements in safe amounts?

twothamendment 11y ago

Maybe smoking kills you before the Parkinson's can get started? What age does it kick in for most people?

at-fates-hands 11y ago
Most people are diagnosed around 60. Anybody who gets it before 50 has a form that is considered "Young Onset PD" source: http://www.parkinson.org/Parkinson-s-Disease/Young-Onset-Parkinsons http://www.parkinson.org/Parkinson-s-Disease/Young-Onset-Par...
feld 11y ago
My dad was diagnosed at 47
kinleyd 11y ago
My thoughts as well. I figure smoking will kill a large proportion well before they hit the age range in which Parkinson's sets in
meric 11y ago
My grandmother smoker her whole life and got Parkinson's at around 85. She died at 91 from smoking-induced stomach cancer.

rogeryu 11y ago

Does anyone smoke coffee? I usually don't go any further than just smelling.

pstuart 11y ago
It's a very dark roast.

willholloway 11y ago

There is a much cleaner, and safer drug that can reduce the chance of developing Parkinson's, and that is Deprenyl [1]. > Deprenyl protects the nigrostriatal dopaminergic neurons against selective neurotoxins (6-hydroxydopamine, MPTP, DSP-4) [2] We know that environmental insults like solvent inhalation and most likely agricultural pesticides contribute to the loss of dopamine neurons in Parkinson's, it seems like Deprenyl has the ability to protect against the damage of some of these, as well as the effect of aging [3]. > These results suggest that (-)-deprenyl and related compounds may protect neurons from apoptosis and be applicable to delay the deterioration of neurons during advancing ageing and in neurodegenerative disorders. [3] I myself take deprenyl, or its newer cousin azilect for this purpose. It also has the benefit of increasing dopamine and it's a much lower impact focus drug than psychostimulants like amphetamines. [1] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3123604 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3123604 [2] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7669938 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7669938 [3] http://www.selegiline.com/apop.html http://www.selegiline.com/apop.html

feld 11y ago
are you doing this as a preventative measure? do you have a history of Parkinsons in your family or something?
- wyldfire 11y ago
  and how old are you?
- willholloway 11y ago
  Yes, completely preventive. I have two family members who developed it in their 70's. I am 30. Update because I can't reply re: self-experimenting: Deprenyl is an incredibly well researched molecule, with a great safety profile. We also have a lot of reason to suspect amphetamines like adderall are neurotoxic to dopamine neurons, and hence my fervent belief that deprenyl should be a first line treatment for those wishing for enhanced focus, and amphetamines should be reserved for tougher cases.
  - 11y ago

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

Bolt64 11y ago

I don't know about drinking coffee, but could the correlation with smoking just be because smokers die earlier than average, and hence never get the time to develop Parkinson's?

jammi 11y ago
Even smokers don't die that young, on average.

moron4hire 11y ago

I think it's kind of irresponsible to release a study like this to the popular press, especially this early before all of the correlations and causitive factors have been worked out. I remember a similar deal hitting the pop-sci press back in the 90s with regards to smoking supposedly preventing Alzheimers (that I believe was later disproven). ah, yeah, here it is: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8437692 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8437692 Half of my extended family completely ignored the part on "The 'dose-response' pattern showed the greatest risk reduction among those who smoked least" (if it ever got mentioned at all), and used it as an excuse to keep smoking for, well, as long as it took for everyone to forget the meme and go back to smoking Because Freedums! Ok, nevermind, I guess they never needed an excuse to begin with.

Gobiel 11y ago

There are other means of administering nicotine (as well as other beneficial effects): http://www.gwern.net/Nicotine http://www.gwern.net/Nicotine