5 ms·

Fiscal sovereignty was already surrendered when the adopted the Euro in the first place.

by nerdcity 11y ago

deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
outside1234 11y ago
Only when the country was totally mismanaged. Nobody is interfering with the Netherlands for instance.
- igravious 11y ago
  The reason you're being downvoted is because your reply is logically, to be frank, bollocks. Whether or not you believe that countries gave up fiscal sovereignty upon joining the euro you'd have to believe based on your assessment of the political implications of the euro project. How each individual country manages their affairs _in no way_ could affect whether their fiscal sovereignty was called into question upon joining the euro. What you're saying doesn't make _logical_ sense, regardless of ideological position. EDIT: sorry for saying bollocks to you, that was harsh, i'll leave it in as a record of what i said but i take it back, again sorry. also - in light of the fiscal and monetary distinction people are making here (see: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9876055 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9876055) - if you remember, monetary sovereignty was definitely given up (because you can't print your own money any more) at the time of joining the euro (and even the ERM in the first place when currencies were pegged). and fiscal sovereignty was given up to a degree because there were broad parameters set, like the 60% rule and the 3% rule and so on. Remember those? I couldn't understand those rules at the time but i do now, they were there to prevent situations like what's happening now with Greece! People complained that even France and Germany broke those. I suppose this is the giving up of fiscal sovereignty at the micromanagement level now, e.g. "raise so much in taxes, implement these social reforms". it stinks.
cryptoz 11y ago
Was it? Not technically, I think; monetary policy was surrendered, not fiscal policy. Unless you're making a comment about how there can't be sane monetary policy without matching fiscal policy, in which case, carry on.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
  - johnpmayer 11y ago
    QE is monetary policy. The (somewhat simplified) difference between the two: Fiscal policy is taxes and expenditures; monetary policy is what your central bank does.
    - igravious 11y ago
      Ah, I see -- I'm actually just going to delete my previous comment so because it does not add any value to the discussion here (and to be honest I'm a little embarrassed, heh). Interesting distinction and not one I was making. So much to learn here, thanks!

Fiscal sovereignty was already surrendered when the adopted the Euro in the first place.

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

outside1234 11y ago

Only when the country was totally mismanaged. Nobody is interfering with the Netherlands for instance.

igravious 11y ago
The reason you're being downvoted is because your reply is logically, to be frank, bollocks. Whether or not you believe that countries gave up fiscal sovereignty upon joining the euro you'd have to believe based on your assessment of the political implications of the euro project. How each individual country manages their affairs _in no way_ could affect whether their fiscal sovereignty was called into question upon joining the euro. What you're saying doesn't make _logical_ sense, regardless of ideological position. EDIT: sorry for saying bollocks to you, that was harsh, i'll leave it in as a record of what i said but i take it back, again sorry. also - in light of the fiscal and monetary distinction people are making here (see: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9876055 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9876055) - if you remember, monetary sovereignty was definitely given up (because you can't print your own money any more) at the time of joining the euro (and even the ERM in the first place when currencies were pegged). and fiscal sovereignty was given up to a degree because there were broad parameters set, like the 60% rule and the 3% rule and so on. Remember those? I couldn't understand those rules at the time but i do now, they were there to prevent situations like what's happening now with Greece! People complained that even France and Germany broke those. I suppose this is the giving up of fiscal sovereignty at the micromanagement level now, e.g. "raise so much in taxes, implement these social reforms". it stinks.

cryptoz 11y ago

Was it? Not technically, I think; monetary policy was surrendered, not fiscal policy. Unless you're making a comment about how there can't be sane monetary policy without matching fiscal policy, in which case, carry on.

deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
- johnpmayer 11y ago
  QE is monetary policy. The (somewhat simplified) difference between the two: Fiscal policy is taxes and expenditures; monetary policy is what your central bank does.
  - igravious 11y ago
    Ah, I see -- I'm actually just going to delete my previous comment so because it does not add any value to the discussion here (and to be honest I'm a little embarrassed, heh). Interesting distinction and not one I was making. So much to learn here, thanks!