5 ms·

I'd be careful implying causation here. Another way to look at it is that people who often find themselves in dangerous situations feel the need to have guns to

I'd be careful implying causation here. Another way to look at it is that people who often find themselves in dangerous situations feel the need to have guns to protect themselves. When you think about it that way, it doesn't sound so 'funny'.

kuschku 11y ago
Well, in this case it might be. In a society where no one owns guns, the chance that some intruder has a gun is near to null, so you don’t need a gun either.
- yummyfajitas 11y ago
  Clearly a 5'1", 105lb woman has no need of a gun when a 6'4", 240lb man breaks into her home.
  - matroosberg 11y ago
    How is that clear? Where is the data that backs up your claim? The studies cited in http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2014/02/having-a-gun-in-the-house-doesnt-make-a-woman-safer/284022/ http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2014/02/having-a... certainly point the other direction.
    - yummyfajitas 11y ago
      The article you cite discusses intimate partner violence and seems to suggest that abusive households which have a gun present may result in the gun being used against the woman. If you read my comment, I was discussing attacks by strangers. Here is an article, for example, that suggests violent resistance (ideally with a gun) is the best way to avoid property loss and injury when attacked. http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1745-9125.2004.tb00539.x/abstract http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1745-9125.2004.... Are you seriously asserting that a small female under attack by a large male is better off unarmed?
      - foldr 11y ago
        Of course it is possible to imagine situations in which a gun makes you safer. The point is that in the real world, you are more likely to end up in a situation where it makes you less safe. More specifically, women are far more likely to be killed by their abusive partners than they are to face a life-threatening home invasion.
        yummyfajitas 11y ago
        So don't buy a gun if you have an abusive intimate partner, and do buy one if you are single or have a non-abusive partner. Pretty simple. Also, upon rereading, your article doesn't even really support your claim that a gun makes women less safe. Note the comparisons made: "More than twice as many women are killed with a gun used by their husbands or intimate acquaintances than are murdered by strangers..." "A very small percentage of these women (7%) had used a gun successfully in self-defense..." Note the comparisons NOT made: the percentage of women in households without a gun who successfully defended themselves, or P(murder|abusive husband && gun) vs P(murder|abusive husband && !gun).
        foldr 11y ago
        It's not "my" article. > the percentage of women in households without a gun who successfully defended themselves Irrelevant, since the whole point is that lethal home invasions are very rare. In other words, even if having a gun provided 100% protection against a murderous home invader, and even if lacking a gun made it 100% certain that he would kill you, owning the gun would still have a negligible effect on you overall safety. > P(murder|abusive husband && gun) vs P(murder|abusive husband && !gun) You can't have it both ways. Either guns make it easier to kill people or they don't. If they don't, then they're no good for self defense. If they do, then you're more likely to be killed by your partner if he has access to a gun than if he doesn't.
        yummyfajitas 11y ago
        Irrelevant, since the whole point is that lethal home invasions are very rare. If women defend themselves successfully 7% of the time when a gun is in the home but 3% when it's not (the relevant comparison), then guns are effective in preventing domestic violence. The article doesn't even discuss this statistic, which is the only important one. Either guns make it easier to kill people or they don't. They do - no one disputes this. No one disputes that an armed man vs an unarmed woman has a better shot than an unarmed man vs an unarmed woman. So what?
  - vacri 11y ago
    Strange then, that the people who most agitate for and carry guns are not short women.
  - kuschku 11y ago
    I am a 5'10", 120lbs woman, and I feel more safe knowing that no one has a gun.

kuschku 11y ago

Well, in this case it might be. In a society where no one owns guns, the chance that some intruder has a gun is near to null, so you don’t need a gun either.

yummyfajitas 11y ago
Clearly a 5'1", 105lb woman has no need of a gun when a 6'4", 240lb man breaks into her home.
- matroosberg 11y ago
  How is that clear? Where is the data that backs up your claim? The studies cited in http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2014/02/having-a-gun-in-the-house-doesnt-make-a-woman-safer/284022/ http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2014/02/having-a... certainly point the other direction.
  - yummyfajitas 11y ago
    The article you cite discusses intimate partner violence and seems to suggest that abusive households which have a gun present may result in the gun being used against the woman. If you read my comment, I was discussing attacks by strangers. Here is an article, for example, that suggests violent resistance (ideally with a gun) is the best way to avoid property loss and injury when attacked. http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1745-9125.2004.tb00539.x/abstract http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1745-9125.2004.... Are you seriously asserting that a small female under attack by a large male is better off unarmed?
    - foldr 11y ago
      Of course it is possible to imagine situations in which a gun makes you safer. The point is that in the real world, you are more likely to end up in a situation where it makes you less safe. More specifically, women are far more likely to be killed by their abusive partners than they are to face a life-threatening home invasion.
      - yummyfajitas 11y ago
        So don't buy a gun if you have an abusive intimate partner, and do buy one if you are single or have a non-abusive partner. Pretty simple. Also, upon rereading, your article doesn't even really support your claim that a gun makes women less safe. Note the comparisons made: "More than twice as many women are killed with a gun used by their husbands or intimate acquaintances than are murdered by strangers..." "A very small percentage of these women (7%) had used a gun successfully in self-defense..." Note the comparisons NOT made: the percentage of women in households without a gun who successfully defended themselves, or P(murder|abusive husband && gun) vs P(murder|abusive husband && !gun).
        foldr 11y ago
        It's not "my" article. > the percentage of women in households without a gun who successfully defended themselves Irrelevant, since the whole point is that lethal home invasions are very rare. In other words, even if having a gun provided 100% protection against a murderous home invader, and even if lacking a gun made it 100% certain that he would kill you, owning the gun would still have a negligible effect on you overall safety. > P(murder|abusive husband && gun) vs P(murder|abusive husband && !gun) You can't have it both ways. Either guns make it easier to kill people or they don't. If they don't, then they're no good for self defense. If they do, then you're more likely to be killed by your partner if he has access to a gun than if he doesn't.
        yummyfajitas 11y ago
        Irrelevant, since the whole point is that lethal home invasions are very rare. If women defend themselves successfully 7% of the time when a gun is in the home but 3% when it's not (the relevant comparison), then guns are effective in preventing domestic violence. The article doesn't even discuss this statistic, which is the only important one. Either guns make it easier to kill people or they don't. They do - no one disputes this. No one disputes that an armed man vs an unarmed woman has a better shot than an unarmed man vs an unarmed woman. So what?
- vacri 11y ago
  Strange then, that the people who most agitate for and carry guns are not short women.
- kuschku 11y ago
  I am a 5'10", 120lbs woman, and I feel more safe knowing that no one has a gun.