4 ms·

It really depends on the state. Making blanket statements about guns in the US is simply ignorant and stupid. In NJ, for example, it's not even safe to move yo

by joesmo 11y ago

It really depends on the state. Making blanket statements about guns in the US is simply ignorant and stupid. In NJ, for example, it's not even safe to move your guns when changing residences, let alone taking them out of the house at any other time for any other purpose (taking a handgun off your property is equal to committing robbery with it in the eyes of the law for example). There are some protections under the law, but those only apply after you've been arrested, charged, and had your life ruined--if you're lucky to have a judge who lets you bring them up, that is. With hollow point bullets, you can't even legally move them when you change residences, and have to leave them at your old residence (which might also be illegal). To even own a gun, you have to be a legal expert. NY, MA, CA, have similar, though perhaps slightly less draconian laws. You won't be able to get a carry permit (concealed or otherwise) even if you prove you have multiple stalkers who intend to do you harm or kill you. NJ especially, I assume, is a model the anti-gun lobby wants for the whole country. There are no guns (especially handguns) legal outside one's home or place of business. We have such a peaceful state with no gun violence at all. I guess it's a small price to pay for persecuting all those gun owners.

dalke 11y ago
Yes, and I grew up in Florida where shooting off fireworks more exciting than sparklers and snakes, without a license, was illegal. As a loyal firework-American, I lived under the threat that my bootleg North Carolina bottlerockets could land me in jail. Many Americans have no legal way to practice the traditional craft of moonshine. There are penalties for getting caught with even a part of a still. In Florida it's a http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/2014-08-05/news/fl-wilton-manors-moonshine-arrest-20140804_1_moonshine-wilton-manors-mason http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/2014-08-05/news/fl-wilton-m...
- joesmo 11y ago
  This reply is just inane drivel.
  - dalke 11y ago
    Yes, it is. I'm sorry about that. It was a partial start, I realized it was silly, then I thought I threw it away for the other response I made. A couple of hours later I saw that I had somehow submitted it, and it was too late to delete.
dalke 11y ago
And this is persecution (in the meaningful sense) because ... why? Or are you changing the topic to complain about NJ gun laws? I mean, I'm from Florida. Moonshine is illegal in Florida. Even owning part of a still is illegal. Here's a report of someone charged with "among other counts, possession of more than a gallon of illegal liquor and possession of a still", which are "third-degree felonies, which carry a maximum penalty of five years in prison" http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/2014-08-05/news/fl-wilton-manors-moonshine-arrest-20140804_1_moonshine-wilton-manors-mason http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/2014-08-05/news/fl-wilton-m... . Owning an unauthorized still in NJ is also illegal. Here's an arrest from a couple years back - http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2013/01/police_medford_man_making_moon.html http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2013/01/police_medford_man_... . If you think that gun owners, and moonshiners, are both persecuted due to complex or draconian laws, then your definition of persecuted is rather meaningless.
- joesmo 11y ago
  Yes, this is persecution because possessing firearms is protected under the second amendment and moonshine production isn't. I have no idea what point you're trying to make.
  - dalke 11y ago
    Your view, if I take it correctly, is that any restriction on firearms is an infringement of a protected civil right and thus a should be treated as persecution? Because my point is only valid if one accepts that some restrictive laws are allowed. The question is still, what does "persecution" mean? As another civil justice issue, free speech is protected under the first amendment. But we also accept that there are time, place, and manner restrictions on the right to free speech. Someone who violates those restrictions may be jailed. Do you consider these people to be persecuted? If so, then I again suggest that your definition of 'persecuted' is so broad as to be unusable. If you do not consider them to be persecuted, then why is it okay to sometimes stifle free expression, but never okay to stifle gun ownership? Both are equally constitutionally protected, no? Why does one have limits and the other not?

by joesmo 11y ago

dalke 11y ago

Yes, and I grew up in Florida where shooting off fireworks more exciting than sparklers and snakes, without a license, was illegal. As a loyal firework-American, I lived under the threat that my bootleg North Carolina bottlerockets could land me in jail. Many Americans have no legal way to practice the traditional craft of moonshine. There are penalties for getting caught with even a part of a still. In Florida it's a http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/2014-08-05/news/fl-wilton-manors-moonshine-arrest-20140804_1_moonshine-wilton-manors-mason http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/2014-08-05/news/fl-wilton-m...

joesmo 11y ago
This reply is just inane drivel.
- dalke 11y ago
  Yes, it is. I'm sorry about that. It was a partial start, I realized it was silly, then I thought I threw it away for the other response I made. A couple of hours later I saw that I had somehow submitted it, and it was too late to delete.

dalke 11y ago

And this is persecution (in the meaningful sense) because ... why? Or are you changing the topic to complain about NJ gun laws? I mean, I'm from Florida. Moonshine is illegal in Florida. Even owning part of a still is illegal. Here's a report of someone charged with "among other counts, possession of more than a gallon of illegal liquor and possession of a still", which are "third-degree felonies, which carry a maximum penalty of five years in prison" http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/2014-08-05/news/fl-wilton-manors-moonshine-arrest-20140804_1_moonshine-wilton-manors-mason http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/2014-08-05/news/fl-wilton-m... . Owning an unauthorized still in NJ is also illegal. Here's an arrest from a couple years back - http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2013/01/police_medford_man_making_moon.html http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2013/01/police_medford_man_... . If you think that gun owners, and moonshiners, are both persecuted due to complex or draconian laws, then your definition of persecuted is rather meaningless.

joesmo 11y ago
Yes, this is persecution because possessing firearms is protected under the second amendment and moonshine production isn't. I have no idea what point you're trying to make.
- dalke 11y ago
  Your view, if I take it correctly, is that any restriction on firearms is an infringement of a protected civil right and thus a should be treated as persecution? Because my point is only valid if one accepts that some restrictive laws are allowed. The question is still, what does "persecution" mean? As another civil justice issue, free speech is protected under the first amendment. But we also accept that there are time, place, and manner restrictions on the right to free speech. Someone who violates those restrictions may be jailed. Do you consider these people to be persecuted? If so, then I again suggest that your definition of 'persecuted' is so broad as to be unusable. If you do not consider them to be persecuted, then why is it okay to sometimes stifle free expression, but never okay to stifle gun ownership? Both are equally constitutionally protected, no? Why does one have limits and the other not?