5 ms·

Seikilos epitaph

62 points by sauravt 11y ago

petercooper 11y ago
This is beautiful. I ended up at the Wikipedia entry for it - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seikilos_epitaph https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seikilos_epitaph - which has quite a lot of stuff about how the lyrics and music were interpreted from the original inscriptions. The lyrics translated to English are poignant enough to deserve a reproduction here: While you live, shine have no grief at all life exists only for a short while and time demands its toll.
- StavrosK 11y ago
  "Telos" has multiple meanings, both "toll" and "end/death". Time demanding toll is probably the more likely explanation, but it may well be a pun. That said, I'm not very up to date on ancient Greek, so take this with a grain of salt.
  - coldtea 11y ago
    Regarding the pun, don't forget that the dead did pay a "toll" in ancient Greek religion/mythology (to Charon, the ferryman of Hades).
nanny 11y ago
Did you really just steal a reddit comment and make it into a blog post? https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/3cvdq2/what_is_the_oldest_song_that_we_still_know_the/ https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/3cvdq2/what_...
- Zezima 11y ago
  Welcome to the internet :/
  - thisjepisje 11y ago
    Where sharing is caring, right?
- StavrosK 11y ago
  Jeez, they didn't even bother changing anything. It's just the top three comments copy/pasted.
  - xenophonf 11y ago
    And now I wish I read this comment thread before upvoting. :-/
    - acqq 11y ago
      How about mods changing the link to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seikilos_epitaph https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seikilos_epitaph
      - dang 11y ago
        Ok, done.
orf 11y ago
There is something quite haunting about the oldest surviving melody being composed for a man's dead wife. > I am a tombstone, an image. Seikilos placed me here as an everlasting sign of deathless remembrance
theOnliest 11y ago
The saddest thing about the Epitaph is that the last line of it is now ruined, because in the late 19th century its owner ground it down so it would sit flat to hold her flowerpots. If anyone is interested in ancient Greek music/music theory, the best source is undoubtedly Thomas Mathiesen's Apollo's Lyre (http://www.amazon.com/Apollos-Lyre-Theory-Antiquity-Middle/dp/1597407968 http://www.amazon.com/Apollos-Lyre-Theory-Antiquity-Middle/d...). I had the distinct privilege of taking his ancient music course in his last semester of teaching. The man has literally looked (in person) at every fragment of Greek music or music theory, and translated many of them himself. The book is magnificent, and you will be very unlikely to find any source more well-researched and written. Edit: If anyone has any questions about Greek music/music theory, I'm happy to try and answer them. It's one of my favorite topics, and while I'm no expert, I probably know a little more than the average Hacker News reader.
dimmuborgir 11y ago
What about religious hymns of Hinduism and Zoroastrianism which were composed before 200BC and are still in use today? Are they not melodies?
- DanAndersen 11y ago
  For those, do we have detailed information about the actual notes that were played, or just the text of the hymns?
  - dimmuborgir 11y ago
    The hymns have specific melodies which were transferred orally as there is no music notation system. They haven't changed in millennia. They are still widely used in India in religious ceremonies. For example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBNEizCsor0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBNEizCsor0
    - jospoortvliet 11y ago
      Just like with texts - how can we be even remotely sure they haven't changed? Seems terribly unlikely to me.

62 points by sauravt 11y ago

This is beautiful. I ended up at the Wikipedia entry for it - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seikilos_epitaph https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seikilos_epitaph - which has quite a lot of stuff about how the lyrics and music were interpreted from the original inscriptions. The lyrics translated to English are poignant enough to deserve a reproduction here: While you live, shine have no grief at all life exists only for a short while and time demands its toll.

StavrosK 11y ago
"Telos" has multiple meanings, both "toll" and "end/death". Time demanding toll is probably the more likely explanation, but it may well be a pun. That said, I'm not very up to date on ancient Greek, so take this with a grain of salt.
- coldtea 11y ago
  Regarding the pun, don't forget that the dead did pay a "toll" in ancient Greek religion/mythology (to Charon, the ferryman of Hades).

nanny 11y ago

Did you really just steal a reddit comment and make it into a blog post? https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/3cvdq2/what_is_the_oldest_song_that_we_still_know_the/ https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/3cvdq2/what_...

Zezima 11y ago
Welcome to the internet :/
- thisjepisje 11y ago
  Where sharing is caring, right?
StavrosK 11y ago
Jeez, they didn't even bother changing anything. It's just the top three comments copy/pasted.
- xenophonf 11y ago
  And now I wish I read this comment thread before upvoting. :-/
  - acqq 11y ago
    How about mods changing the link to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seikilos_epitaph https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seikilos_epitaph
    - dang 11y ago
      Ok, done.

orf 11y ago

There is something quite haunting about the oldest surviving melody being composed for a man's dead wife. > I am a tombstone, an image. Seikilos placed me here as an everlasting sign of deathless remembrance

theOnliest 11y ago

The saddest thing about the Epitaph is that the last line of it is now ruined, because in the late 19th century its owner ground it down so it would sit flat to hold her flowerpots. If anyone is interested in ancient Greek music/music theory, the best source is undoubtedly Thomas Mathiesen's Apollo's Lyre (http://www.amazon.com/Apollos-Lyre-Theory-Antiquity-Middle/dp/1597407968 http://www.amazon.com/Apollos-Lyre-Theory-Antiquity-Middle/d...). I had the distinct privilege of taking his ancient music course in his last semester of teaching. The man has literally looked (in person) at every fragment of Greek music or music theory, and translated many of them himself. The book is magnificent, and you will be very unlikely to find any source more well-researched and written. Edit: If anyone has any questions about Greek music/music theory, I'm happy to try and answer them. It's one of my favorite topics, and while I'm no expert, I probably know a little more than the average Hacker News reader.

dimmuborgir 11y ago

What about religious hymns of Hinduism and Zoroastrianism which were composed before 200BC and are still in use today? Are they not melodies?

DanAndersen 11y ago
For those, do we have detailed information about the actual notes that were played, or just the text of the hymns?
- dimmuborgir 11y ago
  The hymns have specific melodies which were transferred orally as there is no music notation system. They haven't changed in millennia. They are still widely used in India in religious ceremonies. For example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBNEizCsor0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBNEizCsor0
  - jospoortvliet 11y ago
    Just like with texts - how can we be even remotely sure they haven't changed? Seems terribly unlikely to me.