4 ms·

These are the costs you are paying for having a better and cleaner future not only for yourselves but also the next generation. Nothing wrong with that.

mrweasel 11y ago
Absolutely true, but it's not being promoted right. While Denmark is building wind farms, we're have also been told to save on electricity continuously for the past 10+ years. Again there's nothing wrong with that, BUT if you save on electricity every year and still see your bill go up, due to additional taxes, and tariffs, your motivation is broken. Saved 10% on your electricity and having your bill stay the same doesn't make you particular susceptible to future electricity saving campaigns. If you don't do anything, then sure you bill goes up, but at least it does feel like wasted effort. The majority of an electricity bill in Denmark isn't the power you used, that's actually fairly cheap, it's the myriad of different taxes that raise your bill. It makes it almost impossible to read you bill or reduce your cost by any significant amount. It really isn't a system that promotes energy savings.
- lifeisstillgood 11y ago
  But surely it is pretty simple to see the two separately - you pay X for electricity used (a falling amount) and Y for mandatory green tax (which everyone moans about but at least sees some social utility for)
- lyschoening 11y ago
  What you're saying is that you saved 10% electricity and helped the environment at no cost to you. (You might have bought some expensive LED lights, but at least they'll last a number of years.) I also got a little annoyed this year when my energy provider informed me that the electricity costs would sink (pegged to actual marked prices) and the fixed costs would rise. That change made my electricity more expensive only because I use very little electricity. Regardless of that change though, using more electricity would still cost me more — so there is no reason to leave the lights on for good measure. The change just reflects the nature of utilities. The utility has to maintain the grid no matter how much electricity you use. If the fixed costs increase that just means the pricing is more realistic.
  - mrweasel 11y ago
    > What you're saying is that you saved 10% electricity and helped the environment at no cost to you. That's not what I'm saying. We're aren't talking about just changing light bulbs, most people I know did that years ago. All the easy stuff was done years ago, it's trying to eliminate standby power consumption, turning of the oven early cooking on the residual heat, buying a new fridge and so on. Expensive and cumbersome things. Sure people want to help the environment, but it would be more motivating if all your investments and vigilance was reflected on your electric bill. A typical Danish electric bill is: 10% transport, paying for the grid. 45% electric tax (Just a tax, not really clear what it's for). 20% sales tax 10% PSO tax, for securing electrical supply, support for green energy production and research. 15% Actual energy usage. I'm concerned that people will stop trying to save energy, if it's not reflected on their bill. Most people will say that they want to help the environment, but honestly I don't think it's a motivating factor for remembering to turn of the light, the direct impact is simply to small.
- ZeroGravitas 11y ago
  People aren't fully rational, which can complicate issues but still, if I wanted to encourage conservation of something, raising the price is a pretty obvious place to start.

mrweasel 11y ago

Absolutely true, but it's not being promoted right. While Denmark is building wind farms, we're have also been told to save on electricity continuously for the past 10+ years. Again there's nothing wrong with that, BUT if you save on electricity every year and still see your bill go up, due to additional taxes, and tariffs, your motivation is broken. Saved 10% on your electricity and having your bill stay the same doesn't make you particular susceptible to future electricity saving campaigns. If you don't do anything, then sure you bill goes up, but at least it does feel like wasted effort. The majority of an electricity bill in Denmark isn't the power you used, that's actually fairly cheap, it's the myriad of different taxes that raise your bill. It makes it almost impossible to read you bill or reduce your cost by any significant amount. It really isn't a system that promotes energy savings.

lifeisstillgood 11y ago
But surely it is pretty simple to see the two separately - you pay X for electricity used (a falling amount) and Y for mandatory green tax (which everyone moans about but at least sees some social utility for)
lyschoening 11y ago
What you're saying is that you saved 10% electricity and helped the environment at no cost to you. (You might have bought some expensive LED lights, but at least they'll last a number of years.) I also got a little annoyed this year when my energy provider informed me that the electricity costs would sink (pegged to actual marked prices) and the fixed costs would rise. That change made my electricity more expensive only because I use very little electricity. Regardless of that change though, using more electricity would still cost me more — so there is no reason to leave the lights on for good measure. The change just reflects the nature of utilities. The utility has to maintain the grid no matter how much electricity you use. If the fixed costs increase that just means the pricing is more realistic.
- mrweasel 11y ago
  > What you're saying is that you saved 10% electricity and helped the environment at no cost to you. That's not what I'm saying. We're aren't talking about just changing light bulbs, most people I know did that years ago. All the easy stuff was done years ago, it's trying to eliminate standby power consumption, turning of the oven early cooking on the residual heat, buying a new fridge and so on. Expensive and cumbersome things. Sure people want to help the environment, but it would be more motivating if all your investments and vigilance was reflected on your electric bill. A typical Danish electric bill is: 10% transport, paying for the grid. 45% electric tax (Just a tax, not really clear what it's for). 20% sales tax 10% PSO tax, for securing electrical supply, support for green energy production and research. 15% Actual energy usage. I'm concerned that people will stop trying to save energy, if it's not reflected on their bill. Most people will say that they want to help the environment, but honestly I don't think it's a motivating factor for remembering to turn of the light, the direct impact is simply to small.
ZeroGravitas 11y ago
People aren't fully rational, which can complicate issues but still, if I wanted to encourage conservation of something, raising the price is a pretty obvious place to start.