5 ms·

"Web designer" is just a way to tell people what you do. Doesn't mean you're good at it, or formally trained. There's an artist outside that isn't Picasso. Stil

by scorxn 17y ago

"Web designer" is just a way to tell people what you do. Doesn't mean you're good at it, or formally trained. There's an artist outside that isn't Picasso. Still calls himself an artist. The web is just a really easy place to find (and apparently dwell on and become offended by) novices. Edit: As I think about it, this attitude really bothers me. I used to work at a design agency where my boss would pin poor resumés to a wall for group mockery. That kind of snobbish behavior is a plague based on insecurity. Everyone's gotta start somewhere, and formal education is not always the answer. Furthermore, until some body starts issuing professional licenses for "web designer," it really doesn't matter what individuals think of the term.

stilist 17y ago
Totally agree. I don’t think I’m a good designer, but I do design things, so I’m a designer. Same for programming and cooking. The world has enough elitism. Don’t make it worse.
- presidentender 17y ago
  Credentialism (even for lawyers and doctors) isn't my favorite thing, but it's defensible by fairly reasonable people. But this baseless elitism is just too much. "I'm not an astronaut" because I don't go to space, but "I am a musician" because I play the guitar, despite the fact that I do it poorly and have no formal education.
  - potatolicious 17y ago
    The problem here is that the design field doesn't seem to have separate forums for amateurs and professional. I'm into photography, and that community has sorted this out fairly well (for good reason, it's much older than the craft of web design). There are amateur forums (where professionals participate, but nothing is judged for commercial quality), and there are professional galleries where people who do it for a living put their best work forward. Nearly every place that showcases photography sits on one side of this divide - and make this context clear. You're either a place to show portfolio-level work, or you're strictly for-fun. This keeps the marketplace clear, and also doesn't confuse people trying to hire photographers. Web design galleries like the one above don't seem to do this, so in a way they're the cause of their own problems. One hit wonders are only a problem if they're trying to get hired doing it, they're simply not a problem at the amateur level.
    - presidentender 17y ago
      I have to admit, it seems a little odd to me that there's a clear divide in photography. The barrier to entry is low, and the quality of a photographer's output is somewhat subjective. Does my friend with his $500 camera, who gets paid (albeit rarely) to take pictures, fall on the "pro" or "amateur" side of things?
      - potatolicious 17y ago
        It depends entirely on where he puts his work - if he only puts his work on Flickr, then he's likely amateur. If he's submitting his work to sites where professionals troll for work, then he is by definition professional. Which isn't to say professionals don't Flickr their pictures - they do, but the judgment that their work gets is different on the two sides of the fence. In either case, someone looking to hire a photographer will not have to dig through pages upon pages of amateur work, and in a forum of professionals, unskilled amateur work becomes painfully apparent.
      - stan_rogers 17y ago
        The photographic amateur may be better-educated, better-equipped and better-practiced than the professional. He may know things about lenses, filters, lighting and gamma correction that an Ansel Adams would never have considered. The difference is that, when faced with a difficult or seemingly impossible shoot, the amateur will explain why it can't be done (or at least why it can't be done satisfactorily) and walk away, while the pro will explain why the customer's vision may need to be reigned in a bit, but will find a way to get it done the best way possible if the customer insists. It's not just "anything for a buck", but having a professional attitude toward customer service.
    - scorxn 17y ago
      I think because the mode of criticism and the mode of presentation are the same (the Internet), snobs feel especially threatened and forced to put down amateurs. It'd be like amateur and pro photographs hanging in a gallery side-by-side. Meanwhile, the forum you're describing is a neutral ground on another medium.
stan_rogers 17y ago
Product is the only real criterion for judgment, isn't it? There are people who are really, really good at design, but who are almost completely unaware of the rules they intuitively follow, and there are others who've spent years (or decades) learning the rules, the history, the trends, and can write long, scholarly papers about the subject, but who cannot create anything original. (I fall into the latter category, by the way -- but at least I'm aware of it. Enough people are pleased with my reiterations of past successes that I'm not too disappointed with the rut I'm stuck in. And there are few surprises in store for the clients when they are free to ask "can we have that one in blue?")

by scorxn 17y ago

stilist 17y ago

Totally agree. I don’t think I’m a good designer, but I do design things, so I’m a designer. Same for programming and cooking. The world has enough elitism. Don’t make it worse.

presidentender 17y ago
Credentialism (even for lawyers and doctors) isn't my favorite thing, but it's defensible by fairly reasonable people. But this baseless elitism is just too much. "I'm not an astronaut" because I don't go to space, but "I am a musician" because I play the guitar, despite the fact that I do it poorly and have no formal education.
- potatolicious 17y ago
  The problem here is that the design field doesn't seem to have separate forums for amateurs and professional. I'm into photography, and that community has sorted this out fairly well (for good reason, it's much older than the craft of web design). There are amateur forums (where professionals participate, but nothing is judged for commercial quality), and there are professional galleries where people who do it for a living put their best work forward. Nearly every place that showcases photography sits on one side of this divide - and make this context clear. You're either a place to show portfolio-level work, or you're strictly for-fun. This keeps the marketplace clear, and also doesn't confuse people trying to hire photographers. Web design galleries like the one above don't seem to do this, so in a way they're the cause of their own problems. One hit wonders are only a problem if they're trying to get hired doing it, they're simply not a problem at the amateur level.
  - presidentender 17y ago
    I have to admit, it seems a little odd to me that there's a clear divide in photography. The barrier to entry is low, and the quality of a photographer's output is somewhat subjective. Does my friend with his $500 camera, who gets paid (albeit rarely) to take pictures, fall on the "pro" or "amateur" side of things?
    - potatolicious 17y ago
      It depends entirely on where he puts his work - if he only puts his work on Flickr, then he's likely amateur. If he's submitting his work to sites where professionals troll for work, then he is by definition professional. Which isn't to say professionals don't Flickr their pictures - they do, but the judgment that their work gets is different on the two sides of the fence. In either case, someone looking to hire a photographer will not have to dig through pages upon pages of amateur work, and in a forum of professionals, unskilled amateur work becomes painfully apparent.
    - stan_rogers 17y ago
      The photographic amateur may be better-educated, better-equipped and better-practiced than the professional. He may know things about lenses, filters, lighting and gamma correction that an Ansel Adams would never have considered. The difference is that, when faced with a difficult or seemingly impossible shoot, the amateur will explain why it can't be done (or at least why it can't be done satisfactorily) and walk away, while the pro will explain why the customer's vision may need to be reigned in a bit, but will find a way to get it done the best way possible if the customer insists. It's not just "anything for a buck", but having a professional attitude toward customer service.
  - scorxn 17y ago
    I think because the mode of criticism and the mode of presentation are the same (the Internet), snobs feel especially threatened and forced to put down amateurs. It'd be like amateur and pro photographs hanging in a gallery side-by-side. Meanwhile, the forum you're describing is a neutral ground on another medium.

stan_rogers 17y ago

Product is the only real criterion for judgment, isn't it? There are people who are really, really good at design, but who are almost completely unaware of the rules they intuitively follow, and there are others who've spent years (or decades) learning the rules, the history, the trends, and can write long, scholarly papers about the subject, but who cannot create anything original. (I fall into the latter category, by the way -- but at least I'm aware of it. Enough people are pleased with my reiterations of past successes that I'm not too disappointed with the rut I'm stuck in. And there are few surprises in store for the clients when they are free to ask "can we have that one in blue?")