4 ms·

Pretty much had to happen. To say that the Victoria situation was mishandled is a severe understatement. I wonder what will happen with communities like FPH and

by dvt 11y ago

Pretty much had to happen. To say that the Victoria situation was mishandled is a severe understatement. I wonder what will happen with communities like FPH and others (that have since moved to Voat). Will reddit lessen their censorship efforts? Time will tell. IMO, the problem at hand is that reddit is still trying to make advertisers their bread and butter. And advertisers will never be overly attracted to censorship-free spaces. Even though I may not agree with her aggressively politically-correct agenda (nor does most of reddit), I think it may have been a smart move from a business dev. perspective.

pavel_lishin 11y ago
> Will reddit lessen their censorship efforts? I doubt it. Garbage like FPH should have been dealt with much sooner. The reason there was a backlash about that at all, imo, is because they let it drag out too long. Reddit was the friend-parent for so long that when it finally came time to enforce some discipline, it came as a shock and felt like a betrayal.
- dvt 11y ago
  True, although it's important to note that there are still many communities that are much worse than FPH on reddit.
  - Ocerge 11y ago
    This is why it got so messy when they got rid of FPH. They did a MISERABLE job of defining the line on what is and is not appropriate. If you're going to censor, it better be a well-defined line.
  - wvenable 11y ago
    The issue is that these communities aren't frequently in the top of /r/all and causing outside issues. FPH just got too big and too obnoxious to ignore.
- post_break 11y ago
  Where is the limit? Coontown, does that get banned? Sexwithdogs? Incest? SRS? They seemed to hide behind the vail of harassment and not peak behind the curtain of what reddit really is. Reddits problem is they said anything goes, and then years later they saw what they created.
  - pavel_lishin 11y ago
    > Reddits problem is they said anything goes, and then years later they saw what they created Isn't that basically what I said? > Where is the limit? Coontown, does that get banned? Sexwithdogs? Incest? SRS? I genuinely do not know, but they need to find that limit, they need to be transparent about how they came to that decision, and they need to be consistent and fair about applying it to subreddits. Like I said above, they tolerated it for too long, and then swung the hammer down hard. If you don't house train your dog for three years, and then start screaming at it for peeing on the rug, the dog isn't going to react well.
    - jellicle 11y ago
      Banning a number of subreddits that you can count with the fingers on one hand, and zero users, is swinging the hammer down hard? What would be a light touch, then?
      - chazu 11y ago
        FWIW tons of users have been shadowbanned for relatively light infringements (posting about TPP on /r/news, posting negative news items about Pao on various subreddits) since the 5 sub-reddits were shut down.
  - codingdave 11y ago
    The limit is when the hate speech goes beyond online posts and starts encouraging harassment in real life. Simple as that. FPH crossed that line.
    - deleted 11y ago
- seany 11y ago
  Meh. They should have left it alone. The sub mods tried to keep people mostly contained within itself. There are bad actors everywhere. The whole thing seemed like a guilty by association thing to me.
- mindslight 11y ago
  Erm, why should there be any "discipline" at all? Discussion sites (HN included) exist solely due to their users' laziness for using and/or creating better Free decentralized solutions and ensuing network effects. In exchange for this ease of use, the site inserts an epsilon of advertising and censorship. This is the extent of their value proposition. Eventually business/legal skinjobs take over, mistake the community for an owned golden goose, and ramp up the amount of advertising/censorship. The illusion of openness is shattered. The users revolt and move to the next green pasture.
  - pavel_lishin 11y ago
    > Erm, why should there be any "discipline" at all? Because communities need moderators. A free for all is anarchy; enough shitbags will ruin any particular community. I've moderated a small forum, and that was a headache when I just had two trolls to deal with, and I still failed at it - people left because of those two people, enough of them that the forum is basically dead now. On a more cynical/business perspective, if enough users leave and if enough negative press is printed, your business loses money.
    - jonlucc 11y ago
      Sure, but the premise of Reddit is that mods can moderate as they see fit. Admins hadn't really been involved in shaping the content as much as keeping things running and legal.
- wingless 11y ago
  You're talking as if Reddit is doing them a favor by providing them a platform. With your idea of "discipline", Reddit would never become the giant that it is today.
calcol 11y ago
This ignores that advertisement is a good amount of revenue for Reddit (it took is over $8M last year from advertising)[1]. In any case, there definitely needs to exist a balance, and the announcement on Reddit makes no pretense that they'll allow any community like FPH to come back or exist going forward. Even if they didn't need to rely on advertisement, it's better for the community overall to have communities that are hurtful go somewhere else. In my opinion, if FPH etc. are fine at Voat, stay there. 1: http://techcrunch.com/2015/02/18/reddit-charity/ http://techcrunch.com/2015/02/18/reddit-charity/

by dvt 11y ago

pavel_lishin 11y ago

> Will reddit lessen their censorship efforts? I doubt it. Garbage like FPH should have been dealt with much sooner. The reason there was a backlash about that at all, imo, is because they let it drag out too long. Reddit was the friend-parent for so long that when it finally came time to enforce some discipline, it came as a shock and felt like a betrayal.

dvt 11y ago
True, although it's important to note that there are still many communities that are much worse than FPH on reddit.
- Ocerge 11y ago
  This is why it got so messy when they got rid of FPH. They did a MISERABLE job of defining the line on what is and is not appropriate. If you're going to censor, it better be a well-defined line.
- wvenable 11y ago
  The issue is that these communities aren't frequently in the top of /r/all and causing outside issues. FPH just got too big and too obnoxious to ignore.
post_break 11y ago
Where is the limit? Coontown, does that get banned? Sexwithdogs? Incest? SRS? They seemed to hide behind the vail of harassment and not peak behind the curtain of what reddit really is. Reddits problem is they said anything goes, and then years later they saw what they created.
- pavel_lishin 11y ago
  > Reddits problem is they said anything goes, and then years later they saw what they created Isn't that basically what I said? > Where is the limit? Coontown, does that get banned? Sexwithdogs? Incest? SRS? I genuinely do not know, but they need to find that limit, they need to be transparent about how they came to that decision, and they need to be consistent and fair about applying it to subreddits. Like I said above, they tolerated it for too long, and then swung the hammer down hard. If you don't house train your dog for three years, and then start screaming at it for peeing on the rug, the dog isn't going to react well.
  - jellicle 11y ago
    Banning a number of subreddits that you can count with the fingers on one hand, and zero users, is swinging the hammer down hard? What would be a light touch, then?
    - chazu 11y ago
      FWIW tons of users have been shadowbanned for relatively light infringements (posting about TPP on /r/news, posting negative news items about Pao on various subreddits) since the 5 sub-reddits were shut down.
- codingdave 11y ago
  The limit is when the hate speech goes beyond online posts and starts encouraging harassment in real life. Simple as that. FPH crossed that line.
  - deleted 11y ago
seany 11y ago
Meh. They should have left it alone. The sub mods tried to keep people mostly contained within itself. There are bad actors everywhere. The whole thing seemed like a guilty by association thing to me.
mindslight 11y ago
Erm, why should there be any "discipline" at all? Discussion sites (HN included) exist solely due to their users' laziness for using and/or creating better Free decentralized solutions and ensuing network effects. In exchange for this ease of use, the site inserts an epsilon of advertising and censorship. This is the extent of their value proposition. Eventually business/legal skinjobs take over, mistake the community for an owned golden goose, and ramp up the amount of advertising/censorship. The illusion of openness is shattered. The users revolt and move to the next green pasture.
- pavel_lishin 11y ago
  > Erm, why should there be any "discipline" at all? Because communities need moderators. A free for all is anarchy; enough shitbags will ruin any particular community. I've moderated a small forum, and that was a headache when I just had two trolls to deal with, and I still failed at it - people left because of those two people, enough of them that the forum is basically dead now. On a more cynical/business perspective, if enough users leave and if enough negative press is printed, your business loses money.
  - jonlucc 11y ago
    Sure, but the premise of Reddit is that mods can moderate as they see fit. Admins hadn't really been involved in shaping the content as much as keeping things running and legal.
wingless 11y ago
You're talking as if Reddit is doing them a favor by providing them a platform. With your idea of "discipline", Reddit would never become the giant that it is today.

calcol 11y ago

This ignores that advertisement is a good amount of revenue for Reddit (it took is over $8M last year from advertising)[1]. In any case, there definitely needs to exist a balance, and the announcement on Reddit makes no pretense that they'll allow any community like FPH to come back or exist going forward. Even if they didn't need to rely on advertisement, it's better for the community overall to have communities that are hurtful go somewhere else. In my opinion, if FPH etc. are fine at Voat, stay there. 1: http://techcrunch.com/2015/02/18/reddit-charity/ http://techcrunch.com/2015/02/18/reddit-charity/