5 ms·

Web Sockets Now Available In Google Chrome

119 points by gps408 17y ago

spazmaster 17y ago
Great, with Apple, Mozilla and now Google innovating in the browser sphere, it looks like browser will be evolving at a much more rapid pace. Gah, let's hope Microsoft gets some vision for IE too. (or ditch it like Bing ditched Live)
- umjames 17y ago
  I agree, but I'd rather have users get some vision. You'd be surprised how many people still use IE6, even though Microsoft wants them to upgrade. Less-savvy users don't switch unless: 1. They have to (meaning their current methods no longer do anything or the software or hardware no longer works). 2. Someone more savvy does it for them and teaches them the new software. Usually this happens after #1. Unfortunately, I don't know if there's much we can do about this kind of user. We shouldn't (and won't) have to hold ourselves back because they refuse to upgrade.
  - slig 17y ago
    I've seem that too. Non-savvy users can and will update their MSN-messenger client if it stops working, for instance.
  - danielrhodes 17y ago
    Most IE6 installations are in corporate environments where IT doesn't want to switch because it will break internal applications.
    - misterbwong 17y ago
      I hear this claim floated a lot, and I largely believe it based on anecdotal evidence, but how do we know this is really true? Has someone done a study or have a meaningful way to measure it?
      - DomesticMouse 17y ago
        Work inside a large corporate and check the budgets for projects vs budget for IT maintenance. Upgrading browsers, as a project, has no board approvable ROI. This will change when there are applications on the internet that corporates need, but can't access via IE6. See GWave for an example of how this can be resolved.
        redcap 17y ago
        I think we may have to wait a fairly long while before companies will switch browsers just because of Google Wave. Companies aren't getting onboard the usual sharing is caring experiece that most netizens are familiar with - they usually want to pay $$ to get a product (e.g. sharepoint) that provides some level of support rather than asking the users to be smart. It may happen, but my bet is that internal net usage changes when the baby boomers have left the workplace and been replaced by people brought up in a very technological world.
      - kvs 17y ago
        I know of two enterprises (about 3000 to 3500) one and the other about 5000 hosts that still use IE6. The devs recently started using Firefox 3.0 (or something like that). Guess what their JRE/JVM version is? :-) Edit: A quick way to verify this is to run your webserver logs through "whois" for clients with IE6.
        bmm6o 17y ago
        That there are a lot of corporate users still using IE 6 is only part of the claim that that group makes up most of the IE 6 user base.
  - TallGuyShort 17y ago
    In addition to what danielrhodes says in his reply about corporate IT departments having legitimate reasons not to upgrade - I'd like to add that my biggest pet peeve is when someone asks me to see if I can fix their computer, and it's obvious that every IT-enthusiast before me has insisted that this person switch to -INSERT BROWSER HERE-. I helped a gentleman last week that used MSN because he found it intuitive, but had Firefox, Opera, Chrome and IE installed. Then there was the mountain of anti-spyware software everyone had installed. After uninstalling the browsers he didn't like or use (despite them being "better" according to most IT professionals) and uninstalling the spyware blockers, his computer worked just fine. We need to remember that our job is to make the computer better for other people - not just ourselves. I'm amazed at the rate of development I've seen in browser technology, but let's not forget the millions of people that just want to get online and send an email. If we rush to upgrade everyone to "better" technology - we might end up ruining their experience.
    - thwarted 17y ago
      Eventually, those people who don't upgrade won't be able to just get online and send an email.
    - enjo 17y ago
      My dad was in a similar camp. It had NOTHING to do with the browser, and everything to do with the yahoo! branded logo that SBC had installed for him. To him that logo is the internet. For a host of reasons I ended setting him up with Chrome, imported his bookmarks, and changed the shortcut. Now the magic Yahoo! logo opens Chrome instead and he couldn't be more trhilled.
  - tjmc 17y ago
    I suspect most of these users just use the browser that shipped with their OS. So Windows 7 may be the unlikely saviour - particularly after the next corporate refresh cycle.
- IgorPartola 17y ago
  IMHO: Whenever Microsoft gets a "vision for IE" we get ActiveX, document.all, CSS expressions, page load speed ups by ignoring HTTP specs (ignoring cache info), etc. Let's not. I am happy with Microsoft playing catch-up and implementing killer features of other browsers instead of inventing its own: ones without open specs or standards or documentation or sense or reason.
  - DomesticMouse 17y ago
    You forgot XHR.
bumblebird 17y ago
Does the WebSocket spec allow for gzip/deflating streams as well? I can't see anywhere if it does or not.
- DrJokepu 17y ago
  A quick Google search (http://www.google.com/search?q=websocket+compression http://www.google.com/search?q=websocket+compression) revealed that it's not supported yet, however it might get added in a future version: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/hybi/current/msg00789.html http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/hybi/current/msg00789.h...
izend 17y ago
I can abandon Flash sockets if this becomes mainstream.
rbranson 17y ago
As the saying goes: "that's awesome, if only it worked on IE6..."
- bumblebird 17y ago
  If you care about IE6 these days, and aren't selling to corporate users forced to use it, then you're doing something wrong. Also, you can just enable it when it's available, and fallback to comet etc when it's not.
  - robotron 17y ago
    While the numbers are falling, IE 6 users still account for a sizable percentage of the people that buy things from my site. Ignoring them would be "doing something wrong". Guess it just depends on what you're doing.
    - bemmu 17y ago
      Also in case you are doing something that spreads virally, not supporting IE6 can change the viral loop from increasing to decreasing (you could lose 5% of invites/feed messages/emails/whatever depending on app).
  - IgorPartola 17y ago
    I think the main issue here is not IE6 but all the modern browsers (FF 3.5, Safari 4, IE8) that do not support this feature. Targeting Chrome users only is not that appealing.
    - freetard 17y ago
      The feature was added to webkit so both safari, chrome and other will get the feature and so is firefox https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=472529 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=472529
    - JulianMorrison 17y ago
      This is HTML5, they will support it soon if not yet.
est 17y ago
> The protocol is not raw TCP because it needs to provide the browser's "same-origin" security model. It's also not HTTP because web socket traffic differers from HTTP's request-response model. If Websocket has something like crossdomain.xml does that mean we can build p2p applications on that?
- duskwuff 17y ago
  No - it doesn't have a passive mode.
oomkiller 17y ago
I'd like to see an Erlang implementation of a WebSocket server, anyone know if this has been attempted?
- marketer 17y ago
  Not sure if there's one in erlang, but go has a websocket server built into the standard library: http://golang.org/pkg/websocket/ http://golang.org/pkg/websocket/
daleharvey 17y ago
google confuse me how was this implemented before local storage? every current version of browsers supports it apart from chrome (and opera?) saying that it is pretty awesome, web sockets have been a long time coming
laktek 17y ago
I've implemented a Ruby version of WebSocket server (which is based on EventMachine and yet very experimental) - http://github.com/laktek/Web-Socket-Examples http://github.com/laktek/Web-Socket-Examples
- deleted 17y ago
  [deleted]
joblessjunkie 17y ago
Are there any examples of web sockets live right now? I'd like to see it in action...
k7d 17y ago
The main challenge with bidirectional browser communication is really in the backend. It does not scale nearly as easy as easy as RESTful HTTP requests. I'm sure Google has developed some serious technology to address this while building Wave. Wondering if some of it come to Google AppEngine anytime soon?
cracki 17y ago
ws.onclose = function() { // websocket is closed. }; someone reformatted the code without checking...

119 points by gps408 17y ago

Great, with Apple, Mozilla and now Google innovating in the browser sphere, it looks like browser will be evolving at a much more rapid pace. Gah, let's hope Microsoft gets some vision for IE too. (or ditch it like Bing ditched Live)

umjames 17y ago
I agree, but I'd rather have users get some vision. You'd be surprised how many people still use IE6, even though Microsoft wants them to upgrade. Less-savvy users don't switch unless: 1. They have to (meaning their current methods no longer do anything or the software or hardware no longer works). 2. Someone more savvy does it for them and teaches them the new software. Usually this happens after #1. Unfortunately, I don't know if there's much we can do about this kind of user. We shouldn't (and won't) have to hold ourselves back because they refuse to upgrade.
- slig 17y ago
  I've seem that too. Non-savvy users can and will update their MSN-messenger client if it stops working, for instance.
- danielrhodes 17y ago
  Most IE6 installations are in corporate environments where IT doesn't want to switch because it will break internal applications.
  - misterbwong 17y ago
    I hear this claim floated a lot, and I largely believe it based on anecdotal evidence, but how do we know this is really true? Has someone done a study or have a meaningful way to measure it?
    - DomesticMouse 17y ago
      Work inside a large corporate and check the budgets for projects vs budget for IT maintenance. Upgrading browsers, as a project, has no board approvable ROI. This will change when there are applications on the internet that corporates need, but can't access via IE6. See GWave for an example of how this can be resolved.
      - redcap 17y ago
        I think we may have to wait a fairly long while before companies will switch browsers just because of Google Wave. Companies aren't getting onboard the usual sharing is caring experiece that most netizens are familiar with - they usually want to pay $$ to get a product (e.g. sharepoint) that provides some level of support rather than asking the users to be smart. It may happen, but my bet is that internal net usage changes when the baby boomers have left the workplace and been replaced by people brought up in a very technological world.
    - kvs 17y ago
      I know of two enterprises (about 3000 to 3500) one and the other about 5000 hosts that still use IE6. The devs recently started using Firefox 3.0 (or something like that). Guess what their JRE/JVM version is? :-) Edit: A quick way to verify this is to run your webserver logs through "whois" for clients with IE6.
      - bmm6o 17y ago
        That there are a lot of corporate users still using IE 6 is only part of the claim that that group makes up most of the IE 6 user base.
- TallGuyShort 17y ago
  In addition to what danielrhodes says in his reply about corporate IT departments having legitimate reasons not to upgrade - I'd like to add that my biggest pet peeve is when someone asks me to see if I can fix their computer, and it's obvious that every IT-enthusiast before me has insisted that this person switch to -INSERT BROWSER HERE-. I helped a gentleman last week that used MSN because he found it intuitive, but had Firefox, Opera, Chrome and IE installed. Then there was the mountain of anti-spyware software everyone had installed. After uninstalling the browsers he didn't like or use (despite them being "better" according to most IT professionals) and uninstalling the spyware blockers, his computer worked just fine. We need to remember that our job is to make the computer better for other people - not just ourselves. I'm amazed at the rate of development I've seen in browser technology, but let's not forget the millions of people that just want to get online and send an email. If we rush to upgrade everyone to "better" technology - we might end up ruining their experience.
  - thwarted 17y ago
    Eventually, those people who don't upgrade won't be able to just get online and send an email.
  - enjo 17y ago
    My dad was in a similar camp. It had NOTHING to do with the browser, and everything to do with the yahoo! branded logo that SBC had installed for him. To him that logo is the internet. For a host of reasons I ended setting him up with Chrome, imported his bookmarks, and changed the shortcut. Now the magic Yahoo! logo opens Chrome instead and he couldn't be more trhilled.
- tjmc 17y ago
  I suspect most of these users just use the browser that shipped with their OS. So Windows 7 may be the unlikely saviour - particularly after the next corporate refresh cycle.
IgorPartola 17y ago
IMHO: Whenever Microsoft gets a "vision for IE" we get ActiveX, document.all, CSS expressions, page load speed ups by ignoring HTTP specs (ignoring cache info), etc. Let's not. I am happy with Microsoft playing catch-up and implementing killer features of other browsers instead of inventing its own: ones without open specs or standards or documentation or sense or reason.
- DomesticMouse 17y ago
  You forgot XHR.

bumblebird 17y ago

Does the WebSocket spec allow for gzip/deflating streams as well? I can't see anywhere if it does or not.

DrJokepu 17y ago
A quick Google search (http://www.google.com/search?q=websocket+compression http://www.google.com/search?q=websocket+compression) revealed that it's not supported yet, however it might get added in a future version: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/hybi/current/msg00789.html http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/hybi/current/msg00789.h...

izend 17y ago

I can abandon Flash sockets if this becomes mainstream.

rbranson 17y ago

As the saying goes: "that's awesome, if only it worked on IE6..."

bumblebird 17y ago
If you care about IE6 these days, and aren't selling to corporate users forced to use it, then you're doing something wrong. Also, you can just enable it when it's available, and fallback to comet etc when it's not.
- robotron 17y ago
  While the numbers are falling, IE 6 users still account for a sizable percentage of the people that buy things from my site. Ignoring them would be "doing something wrong". Guess it just depends on what you're doing.
  - bemmu 17y ago
    Also in case you are doing something that spreads virally, not supporting IE6 can change the viral loop from increasing to decreasing (you could lose 5% of invites/feed messages/emails/whatever depending on app).
- IgorPartola 17y ago
  I think the main issue here is not IE6 but all the modern browsers (FF 3.5, Safari 4, IE8) that do not support this feature. Targeting Chrome users only is not that appealing.
  - freetard 17y ago
    The feature was added to webkit so both safari, chrome and other will get the feature and so is firefox https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=472529 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=472529
  - JulianMorrison 17y ago
    This is HTML5, they will support it soon if not yet.

est 17y ago

> The protocol is not raw TCP because it needs to provide the browser's "same-origin" security model. It's also not HTTP because web socket traffic differers from HTTP's request-response model. If Websocket has something like crossdomain.xml does that mean we can build p2p applications on that?

duskwuff 17y ago
No - it doesn't have a passive mode.

oomkiller 17y ago

I'd like to see an Erlang implementation of a WebSocket server, anyone know if this has been attempted?

marketer 17y ago
Not sure if there's one in erlang, but go has a websocket server built into the standard library: http://golang.org/pkg/websocket/ http://golang.org/pkg/websocket/

daleharvey 17y ago

google confuse me how was this implemented before local storage? every current version of browsers supports it apart from chrome (and opera?) saying that it is pretty awesome, web sockets have been a long time coming

laktek 17y ago

I've implemented a Ruby version of WebSocket server (which is based on EventMachine and yet very experimental) - http://github.com/laktek/Web-Socket-Examples http://github.com/laktek/Web-Socket-Examples

deleted 17y ago
[deleted]

joblessjunkie 17y ago

Are there any examples of web sockets live right now? I'd like to see it in action...

k7d 17y ago

The main challenge with bidirectional browser communication is really in the backend. It does not scale nearly as easy as easy as RESTful HTTP requests. I'm sure Google has developed some serious technology to address this while building Wave. Wondering if some of it come to Google AppEngine anytime soon?

cracki 17y ago

ws.onclose = function() { // websocket is closed. }; someone reformatted the code without checking...