4 ms·

> Of course the Model S can be road-tripped. Whether it can be accomplished with the sort of ease we assume buyers of a $140,000 luxury sedan expect, well, that

by furyg3 11y ago

> Of course the Model S can be road-tripped. Whether it can be accomplished with the sort of ease we assume buyers of a $140,000 luxury sedan expect, well, that depends on your planning. On the other hand he paid $0 for energy, which would be very different had he brought along a comparable gasoline-powered car (Audi RS6?). In my experience taking long road trips in expensive cars is a fools errand, electric or not. Expensive cars are either fast, heavy, or both, and get horrible milage. Sure, an Audi RS6 would have had fewer stops which also would have been quicker, but you'd be there in the same amount of time at a quarter of the cost in a Miata, which would have been a lot of fun at the race track, too.

cookiecaper 11y ago
This is a good point, but you also have to assume that people who drive cars that cost more than a modest house are probably not overly concerned about the cost of gasoline. Even if it were a car attainable by normal middle-class drivers, I believe most people would rather be confident that they can reach their destination safely than fret over a hundred bucks of gasoline (and a tow costs at least $75). Maybe the moral of the story is that all Tesla owners doing long-range driving should invest in a AAA membership for the inevitable occasion when the battery jumps down to -22% before reaching the next charging station.
- greglindahl 11y ago
  It's likely that no Tesla owners have AAA, because the car comes with roadside service, including towing. I know people on HN love to discuss things they aren't personally familiar with, but this is really getting out of hand!
  - cookiecaper 11y ago
    It was a quip. Relax. It doesn't really matter if they get included roadside service or not, since they'll still have to sit around, wait for a tow truck to show up and rescue them from the middle of nowhere, ride in the truck's cab or possibly have to get a separate taxi to wherever the car is being towed, and wait to get charged. This has to happen whether one uses Tesla, AAA, or any other entity (including themselves) to coordinate the tow. It doesn't materially change the argument.
  - jack-r-abbit 11y ago
    > It's likely that no Tesla owners have AAA, because the car comes with roadside service, including towing. That assumes the Tesla is that person's only car. I own 3 cars and have AAA. If I bought a Tesla I would still have at least one additional car. (Simply because my wife needs a car at the same time I do so we are pretty much a 2+ car family.) I would still have AAA.
- mikeash 11y ago
  That doesn't happen. There's a trip energy graph which shows your projected remaining charge when you reach your destination, and compares it with the actual usage. Energy use is strongly dependent on speed, so if you find yourself using more than projected, you can slow down a bit (5MPH is generally plenty) and get back on track. If you use more than expected you can see this happening with plenty of time to spare and take appropriate actions without any worries. One of the nice things about an electric car is that the measure of remaining capacity is really accurate. In a typical gas car, anything below ~50 miles of range is basically a crapshoot. In an electric car, if it says you can make it 5 more miles, that might actually be 4, or 6, but it won't be zero. I don't know what happened with the author, but given the total lack of discussion of the trip energy use graph in the article, I suspect he was not using all the tools available to him and misinterpreted something. That's not to make excuses for Tesla; they seriously need to improve their trip planner to stop being so stupid. However, if you take five minutes to familiarize yourself with the car and the tools it provides you, then there is no worry about the battery suddenly jumping to -22% and leaving you stranded. It's certainly not an "inevitable occasion."
burstsintop 11y ago
At least it didn't burst into flames like others teslas..
plorkyeran 11y ago
Are fuel costs actually a realistic concern for people buying $140k cars? Even at 5 MPG you'd have to go on a lot of road trips for it to add up to even a small fraction of the cost of the car, so I'd expect general wear-and-tear to be a bigger expense.
- zippergz 11y ago
  No. I have two fairly expensive cars (not $140k), and I honestly don't care even a tiny bit about fuel costs. It doesn't even cross my mind. It's not a factor when I choose to take a trip, and it's definitely not a factor when I buy a car. I don't think I'm unique in this...
  - sokoloff 11y ago
    OTOH, I have a couple of small aircraft, and I care quite a bit about fuel costs. One gets 9-12 mpg and the other 4-6 mpg with the normal range of head/tail winds. I shop for fuel prices, and will (sometimes) make a fuel stop and/or tanker fuel based on fuel prices. I will also prefer the smaller aircraft for its better fuel efficiency, and the smaller, less capable airplane is MORE expensive in the market in part due to economy concerns. It seems among small aircraft pilots that we're split about 50/50; some care about fuel costs and some don't. Airplane ownership has also allowed me to switch my daily driver to a Nissan LEAF, since the overwhelming majority of moderate to long range travel is done by airplane rather than my daily driver.
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
ericabiz 11y ago
Spoken like someone who has never done a long road trip in a Miata. :) I have owned two Miatas, most recently a 2008 PRHT Grand Touring, which is about the most "luxury" Miata you can buy. I also have a 2015 Mercedes-Benz C400, which I've done 3 long road trips in since buying it in Oct. 2014. The Miata and the Benz actually get comparable gas mileage (Miata: 29mpg; Benz: 26mpg) on the highway, so the difference there is negligible. The huge difference is how you feel after having sat in each car for several hours. Miata seats are great for short road trips or the track, but absolutely horrifying after about 3-4 hours on the road. Plus, you can barely stuff any luggage in it! As someone who owned and used 2 Miatas as daily drivers (and each one being my only car!) from the year 2000 to 2014, you won't find a bigger Miata fan than me, but you have to be realistic--5 straight hours in that thing is enough to make anyone beg for mercy. The Benz is so much better equipped (OMG Bluetooth!), and so much more comfortable, that there is no comparison. Also, the C400 is pretty zippy. It's not a Miata, but it's a nice sporty feel.
- projct 11y ago
  This is one of the reasons I went with a Subaru WRX STI - just as fun as the Miata in my opinion, but comfier seats and I can fit a ton of stuff in the hatchback...
mfringel 11y ago
So, doing the math... a quick look around the web for the Audi RS6 says 15mpg city/22 hwy. This is a road trip, so let's say something conservative like 18mpg. Let's even say they take the same route as the Tesla. Also, the RS6 takes Premium gas, which was $3.29/gal in Boston just this morning when I drove past a major gas station. 759 mi/(18 mi/gal) = 42.17 gal 42.17 gal*(3.29 USD/gal) = USD 138.74 That's still not a hell of a lot of money, especially if you're driving something that costs three orders of magnitude more.
- rjsw 11y ago
  What size is the tank on an Audi RS6 ? An owner may not be too bothered about the cost of fuel but how often do they have to stop compared to the Tesla. I remember reading a report of a fast road trip on a superbike, the author had to stop every 30 minutes to fill up.
  - emp_zealoth 11y ago
    You only need to stop every 30 min if you are doing 200-250 km/h, which is hardly an issue, since such speed wears you down a lot Source:been there done that
  - bradleyland 11y ago
    I think you're on to something there. Poor range is the complaint I hear from many owners of sports sedans/coupes. Chris Harris (a well respected automotive journalist) listed this as a chief complaint about his E92 M3 (the V8 powered car). I just drove my E92 M3 on a 2,000 mile road trip from Florida to Virginia, and I can empathize. The car managed 23 MPG on the highway, but I had to stop every 300 miles or so in order to fill up to avoid the anxiety of running out of fuel in heavy traffic where the car would average closer to 19 MPG. That still bests the Tesla's range by a reasonable margin, but it's enough to make M3 owners complain, so I could see it being an issue for potential Tesla buyers.

by furyg3 11y ago

cookiecaper 11y ago

This is a good point, but you also have to assume that people who drive cars that cost more than a modest house are probably not overly concerned about the cost of gasoline. Even if it were a car attainable by normal middle-class drivers, I believe most people would rather be confident that they can reach their destination safely than fret over a hundred bucks of gasoline (and a tow costs at least $75). Maybe the moral of the story is that all Tesla owners doing long-range driving should invest in a AAA membership for the inevitable occasion when the battery jumps down to -22% before reaching the next charging station.

greglindahl 11y ago
It's likely that no Tesla owners have AAA, because the car comes with roadside service, including towing. I know people on HN love to discuss things they aren't personally familiar with, but this is really getting out of hand!
- cookiecaper 11y ago
  It was a quip. Relax. It doesn't really matter if they get included roadside service or not, since they'll still have to sit around, wait for a tow truck to show up and rescue them from the middle of nowhere, ride in the truck's cab or possibly have to get a separate taxi to wherever the car is being towed, and wait to get charged. This has to happen whether one uses Tesla, AAA, or any other entity (including themselves) to coordinate the tow. It doesn't materially change the argument.
- jack-r-abbit 11y ago
  > It's likely that no Tesla owners have AAA, because the car comes with roadside service, including towing. That assumes the Tesla is that person's only car. I own 3 cars and have AAA. If I bought a Tesla I would still have at least one additional car. (Simply because my wife needs a car at the same time I do so we are pretty much a 2+ car family.) I would still have AAA.
mikeash 11y ago
That doesn't happen. There's a trip energy graph which shows your projected remaining charge when you reach your destination, and compares it with the actual usage. Energy use is strongly dependent on speed, so if you find yourself using more than projected, you can slow down a bit (5MPH is generally plenty) and get back on track. If you use more than expected you can see this happening with plenty of time to spare and take appropriate actions without any worries. One of the nice things about an electric car is that the measure of remaining capacity is really accurate. In a typical gas car, anything below ~50 miles of range is basically a crapshoot. In an electric car, if it says you can make it 5 more miles, that might actually be 4, or 6, but it won't be zero. I don't know what happened with the author, but given the total lack of discussion of the trip energy use graph in the article, I suspect he was not using all the tools available to him and misinterpreted something. That's not to make excuses for Tesla; they seriously need to improve their trip planner to stop being so stupid. However, if you take five minutes to familiarize yourself with the car and the tools it provides you, then there is no worry about the battery suddenly jumping to -22% and leaving you stranded. It's certainly not an "inevitable occasion."

burstsintop 11y ago

At least it didn't burst into flames like others teslas..

plorkyeran 11y ago

Are fuel costs actually a realistic concern for people buying $140k cars? Even at 5 MPG you'd have to go on a lot of road trips for it to add up to even a small fraction of the cost of the car, so I'd expect general wear-and-tear to be a bigger expense.

zippergz 11y ago
No. I have two fairly expensive cars (not $140k), and I honestly don't care even a tiny bit about fuel costs. It doesn't even cross my mind. It's not a factor when I choose to take a trip, and it's definitely not a factor when I buy a car. I don't think I'm unique in this...
- sokoloff 11y ago
  OTOH, I have a couple of small aircraft, and I care quite a bit about fuel costs. One gets 9-12 mpg and the other 4-6 mpg with the normal range of head/tail winds. I shop for fuel prices, and will (sometimes) make a fuel stop and/or tanker fuel based on fuel prices. I will also prefer the smaller aircraft for its better fuel efficiency, and the smaller, less capable airplane is MORE expensive in the market in part due to economy concerns. It seems among small aircraft pilots that we're split about 50/50; some care about fuel costs and some don't. Airplane ownership has also allowed me to switch my daily driver to a Nissan LEAF, since the overwhelming majority of moderate to long range travel is done by airplane rather than my daily driver.

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

ericabiz 11y ago

Spoken like someone who has never done a long road trip in a Miata. :) I have owned two Miatas, most recently a 2008 PRHT Grand Touring, which is about the most "luxury" Miata you can buy. I also have a 2015 Mercedes-Benz C400, which I've done 3 long road trips in since buying it in Oct. 2014. The Miata and the Benz actually get comparable gas mileage (Miata: 29mpg; Benz: 26mpg) on the highway, so the difference there is negligible. The huge difference is how you feel after having sat in each car for several hours. Miata seats are great for short road trips or the track, but absolutely horrifying after about 3-4 hours on the road. Plus, you can barely stuff any luggage in it! As someone who owned and used 2 Miatas as daily drivers (and each one being my only car!) from the year 2000 to 2014, you won't find a bigger Miata fan than me, but you have to be realistic--5 straight hours in that thing is enough to make anyone beg for mercy. The Benz is so much better equipped (OMG Bluetooth!), and so much more comfortable, that there is no comparison. Also, the C400 is pretty zippy. It's not a Miata, but it's a nice sporty feel.

projct 11y ago
This is one of the reasons I went with a Subaru WRX STI - just as fun as the Miata in my opinion, but comfier seats and I can fit a ton of stuff in the hatchback...

mfringel 11y ago

So, doing the math... a quick look around the web for the Audi RS6 says 15mpg city/22 hwy. This is a road trip, so let's say something conservative like 18mpg. Let's even say they take the same route as the Tesla. Also, the RS6 takes Premium gas, which was $3.29/gal in Boston just this morning when I drove past a major gas station. 759 mi/(18 mi/gal) = 42.17 gal 42.17 gal*(3.29 USD/gal) = USD 138.74 That's still not a hell of a lot of money, especially if you're driving something that costs three orders of magnitude more.

rjsw 11y ago
What size is the tank on an Audi RS6 ? An owner may not be too bothered about the cost of fuel but how often do they have to stop compared to the Tesla. I remember reading a report of a fast road trip on a superbike, the author had to stop every 30 minutes to fill up.
- emp_zealoth 11y ago
  You only need to stop every 30 min if you are doing 200-250 km/h, which is hardly an issue, since such speed wears you down a lot Source:been there done that
- bradleyland 11y ago
  I think you're on to something there. Poor range is the complaint I hear from many owners of sports sedans/coupes. Chris Harris (a well respected automotive journalist) listed this as a chief complaint about his E92 M3 (the V8 powered car). I just drove my E92 M3 on a 2,000 mile road trip from Florida to Virginia, and I can empathize. The car managed 23 MPG on the highway, but I had to stop every 300 miles or so in order to fill up to avoid the anxiety of running out of fuel in heavy traffic where the car would average closer to 19 MPG. That still bests the Tesla's range by a reasonable margin, but it's enough to make M3 owners complain, so I could see it being an issue for potential Tesla buyers.