4 ms·

So many of these complaints seem to focus on edge cases, what proportion of car journeys would really trigger 'range anxiety'? Even in the US I imagine such lon

So many of these complaints seem to focus on edge cases, what proportion of car journeys would really trigger 'range anxiety'? Even in the US I imagine such long trips are the exception for the majority of car owners.

greglindahl 11y ago
In the US, the overwhelming majority of long trips have a lot better supercharger coverage than this particular one.
- rpcope1 11y ago
  I'm not so sure this is actually the case. If you look at the supercharger map: http://www.teslamotors.com/findus#/bounds/49.38,-66.94,25.82,-124.39,d?search=supercharger&name=us http://www.teslamotors.com/findus#/bounds/49.38,-66.94,25.82... you'll notice major corridors like I-64 from Lexington to St. Louis have no intermediate chargers, and from St. Louis to Kansas City on I-70 is similarly devoid. It would look like if you don't live on the north east coast or out in California, you'd be in real trouble. The chargers probably don't have to have the same ubiquity as gas stations, but having 400-500 miles of _interstate_ (god forbid you need to go somewhere like Ithaca, NY where no interstates run) without any way to refuel the vehicle still would certainly make me nervous driving it cross country.
  - mikeash 11y ago
    From the St. Louis supercharger to the one in Kansas City is 213 miles. No problem in an 85kWh Tesla. Lexington to St. Louis is not doable on superchargers, and you'd either have to go by way of Indianapolis, or find a friendly CHAdeMO charger in between. Ithaca would depend on where you're coming from and where you're going. It's well within range of the supercharger at Paramus, NY or Syracuse. Coming from Pittsburg you'd have to detour through Buffalo.
    - rpcope1 11y ago
      I guess it just goes to show that Tesla (or whoever ends up betting the farm on electric cars) still have a lot of way to go before we see something approaching critical mass. All of the chargers are placed OK assuming you don't leave the interstate, but I think we're going to need to see some serious infrastructure upgrades before electric cars become totally viable alternatives (for some of us that often go cross country, anyways).
      - mikeash 11y ago
        I think you're right. It will never be a 100% thing (nothing is, gas cars included) but it needs to get a bit farther before "everyone" can use them. However, the infrastructure is not that tough to build out. At the start of 2014 there were 50 superchargers in North American. Today there are 217. That's one company, funding them with the profits from selling cars. Give it another couple of years and the network should be nearly ubiquitous.
- smacktoward 11y ago
  I didn't read the frustration as coming from lack of supercharger access as from the inability of the Tesla's guidance system to plot a coherent, logical course from one supercharger to the next. It was constantly telling the author to double back to superchargers he'd already passed (80 miles ago, in one case), telling him he needed to stop and charge when he really didn't, and predicting he'd run out of charge before reaching the next supercharger when he really wouldn't. If superchargers were as widely available as gas stations that wouldn't be a big deal, because you could just take the Tesla's instructions with a grain of salt. But when superchargers are few and far between, it's got to be nerve-wracking to never really be sure if you can make the next one if you skip the current one. The good news is that this is the sort of problem that can be fixed with better software. The bad news is that Tesla's software isn't good enough to answer questions like "how far will my current battery charge get me" reliably already.
cookiecaper 11y ago
Any proportion that includes a trip in excess of 200 miles? The report clearly details the Tesla tripping all over itself. I know I would be pretty worried after seeing the Tesla suddenly recalculate its route and politely inform me that the previously planned stop will now put my battery at -22% and that I ought to "drive slowly" to make sure I make it; I would probably not trust it the rest of the trip, and waste a lot of time making sure the battery never fell below 50%. I understand that the issues faced by the author of the article were probably due to changing atmospheric conditions, but the Tesla should know how to include the effect of these in its calculations with reasonable accuracy, since they're a constant in all long-distance driving; weather is not going to be same 200, 400, or 1000 miles away from the starting point. I wonder if this is a learning issue, where the Tesla rates its battery based on the atmospheric conditions where it is most used, after sampling atmospheric data and combining that with battery learn data. While other luxury cars may not be intended for long-haul drives, at least you can be assured that you'll get to your destination as long as you stop at a gas station when your car indicates that it's getting low. It doesn't seem one can trust the Tesla to know when it's going to need to be refilled.

greglindahl 11y ago

In the US, the overwhelming majority of long trips have a lot better supercharger coverage than this particular one.

rpcope1 11y ago
I'm not so sure this is actually the case. If you look at the supercharger map: http://www.teslamotors.com/findus#/bounds/49.38,-66.94,25.82,-124.39,d?search=supercharger&name=us http://www.teslamotors.com/findus#/bounds/49.38,-66.94,25.82... you'll notice major corridors like I-64 from Lexington to St. Louis have no intermediate chargers, and from St. Louis to Kansas City on I-70 is similarly devoid. It would look like if you don't live on the north east coast or out in California, you'd be in real trouble. The chargers probably don't have to have the same ubiquity as gas stations, but having 400-500 miles of _interstate_ (god forbid you need to go somewhere like Ithaca, NY where no interstates run) without any way to refuel the vehicle still would certainly make me nervous driving it cross country.
- mikeash 11y ago
  From the St. Louis supercharger to the one in Kansas City is 213 miles. No problem in an 85kWh Tesla. Lexington to St. Louis is not doable on superchargers, and you'd either have to go by way of Indianapolis, or find a friendly CHAdeMO charger in between. Ithaca would depend on where you're coming from and where you're going. It's well within range of the supercharger at Paramus, NY or Syracuse. Coming from Pittsburg you'd have to detour through Buffalo.
  - rpcope1 11y ago
    I guess it just goes to show that Tesla (or whoever ends up betting the farm on electric cars) still have a lot of way to go before we see something approaching critical mass. All of the chargers are placed OK assuming you don't leave the interstate, but I think we're going to need to see some serious infrastructure upgrades before electric cars become totally viable alternatives (for some of us that often go cross country, anyways).
    - mikeash 11y ago
      I think you're right. It will never be a 100% thing (nothing is, gas cars included) but it needs to get a bit farther before "everyone" can use them. However, the infrastructure is not that tough to build out. At the start of 2014 there were 50 superchargers in North American. Today there are 217. That's one company, funding them with the profits from selling cars. Give it another couple of years and the network should be nearly ubiquitous.
smacktoward 11y ago
I didn't read the frustration as coming from lack of supercharger access as from the inability of the Tesla's guidance system to plot a coherent, logical course from one supercharger to the next. It was constantly telling the author to double back to superchargers he'd already passed (80 miles ago, in one case), telling him he needed to stop and charge when he really didn't, and predicting he'd run out of charge before reaching the next supercharger when he really wouldn't. If superchargers were as widely available as gas stations that wouldn't be a big deal, because you could just take the Tesla's instructions with a grain of salt. But when superchargers are few and far between, it's got to be nerve-wracking to never really be sure if you can make the next one if you skip the current one. The good news is that this is the sort of problem that can be fixed with better software. The bad news is that Tesla's software isn't good enough to answer questions like "how far will my current battery charge get me" reliably already.

cookiecaper 11y ago

Any proportion that includes a trip in excess of 200 miles? The report clearly details the Tesla tripping all over itself. I know I would be pretty worried after seeing the Tesla suddenly recalculate its route and politely inform me that the previously planned stop will now put my battery at -22% and that I ought to "drive slowly" to make sure I make it; I would probably not trust it the rest of the trip, and waste a lot of time making sure the battery never fell below 50%. I understand that the issues faced by the author of the article were probably due to changing atmospheric conditions, but the Tesla should know how to include the effect of these in its calculations with reasonable accuracy, since they're a constant in all long-distance driving; weather is not going to be same 200, 400, or 1000 miles away from the starting point. I wonder if this is a learning issue, where the Tesla rates its battery based on the atmospheric conditions where it is most used, after sampling atmospheric data and combining that with battery learn data. While other luxury cars may not be intended for long-haul drives, at least you can be assured that you'll get to your destination as long as you stop at a gas station when your car indicates that it's getting low. It doesn't seem one can trust the Tesla to know when it's going to need to be refilled.