3 ms·

> The fact that young Americans now realize this isn't indicative of anything I seriously disagree with that. It's a big shift to go from a highly patriotic ne

by orf 11y ago

> The fact that young Americans now realize this isn't indicative of anything I seriously disagree with that. It's a big shift to go from a highly patriotic new generation to one almost disenfranchised with the whole idea.

nmrm2 11y ago
You've literally just reworded the statement of the article. Neither you nor the author explain how patriotism is linked to power. I (and your parent) think that's an absurd position. If anything, a realistic rather than jingoistic view of the nation's stance in the world enables a sort of realism that prevents stupid mistakes of hubris -- mistakes that can sap a country's ability to project both military and diplomatic power.
- orf 11y ago
  > Neither you nor the author explain how patriotism is linked to power It's linked to the people in power, no? A population that's highly patriotic and supportive of the country they live in are more likely to go along with whatever the leaders of the country do. Like root out people with communist ideas or supposed Japanese spies (and put them in big old camps). Hitler was an expert at stoking the patriotic fires and this helped in immeasurably at the start. A disenfranchised populous is unlikely to follow their leaders to war and be far more critical (and vocal) about their policies.
  - nmrm2 11y ago
    Japanese internment camps, wasted energy on McCarthyist witch hunts, Nazi concentration camps, and futile wars are all excellent examples of how patriotism can undermine national power. Patriotism is an emotion. Emotional decision making can help avoid debates that lead to inaction, but it can also enable horrendously stupid decisions. It's not clear to me that overbearing patriotism in the general population is a net benefit to a democratic superpower.
charlesray 11y ago
It's exclusively a shift in perception.
ninkendo 11y ago
It's definitely a huge shift, but I think most would agree that the waning of the idea of American exceptionalism comes down to life in the rest of the world getting better, not life in the US getting worse. The rest of the modern world spent half the past century coming back from the brink after two world wars that left American lands almost entirely untouched. The US had a head start with modern innovation and prosperity but the rest of the world has caught up. Who cares about which arbitrarily defined nation state is "best"? It'sbecoming a great time to be alive in places all over the world, and that's a good thing. I don't think America is the greatest country in the world, but I don't think any other country truly deserves that title either. It's kind of an antiquated concept really, given how interconnected and global everything has become.

by orf 11y ago

nmrm2 11y ago

You've literally just reworded the statement of the article. Neither you nor the author explain how patriotism is linked to power. I (and your parent) think that's an absurd position. If anything, a realistic rather than jingoistic view of the nation's stance in the world enables a sort of realism that prevents stupid mistakes of hubris -- mistakes that can sap a country's ability to project both military and diplomatic power.

orf 11y ago
> Neither you nor the author explain how patriotism is linked to power It's linked to the people in power, no? A population that's highly patriotic and supportive of the country they live in are more likely to go along with whatever the leaders of the country do. Like root out people with communist ideas or supposed Japanese spies (and put them in big old camps). Hitler was an expert at stoking the patriotic fires and this helped in immeasurably at the start. A disenfranchised populous is unlikely to follow their leaders to war and be far more critical (and vocal) about their policies.
- nmrm2 11y ago
  Japanese internment camps, wasted energy on McCarthyist witch hunts, Nazi concentration camps, and futile wars are all excellent examples of how patriotism can undermine national power. Patriotism is an emotion. Emotional decision making can help avoid debates that lead to inaction, but it can also enable horrendously stupid decisions. It's not clear to me that overbearing patriotism in the general population is a net benefit to a democratic superpower.

charlesray 11y ago

It's exclusively a shift in perception.

ninkendo 11y ago

It's definitely a huge shift, but I think most would agree that the waning of the idea of American exceptionalism comes down to life in the rest of the world getting better, not life in the US getting worse. The rest of the modern world spent half the past century coming back from the brink after two world wars that left American lands almost entirely untouched. The US had a head start with modern innovation and prosperity but the rest of the world has caught up. Who cares about which arbitrarily defined nation state is "best"? It'sbecoming a great time to be alive in places all over the world, and that's a good thing. I don't think America is the greatest country in the world, but I don't think any other country truly deserves that title either. It's kind of an antiquated concept really, given how interconnected and global everything has become.