6 ms·

El Niño weather event is biggest since 1997, may trigger soaking winter storms

54 points by sinak 11y ago

rav 11y ago
The title should say "may trigger soaking winter storms in California".
- evan_ 11y ago
  Are you implying there are places in the world other than California? Interesting, this might require some further research.
  - 3solarmasses 11y ago
    Indeed. I'm also interested in learning about these mythical non-california places.
  - 0xdeadbeefbabe 11y ago
    Maybe other political parties too?
- gregatragenet3 11y ago
  It is in a newspaper from San Jose, California. Its implicit.
  - mbreese 11y ago
    Not everyone here will immediately know that the Mercury News is a newspaper in San Jose.
    - dtparr 11y ago
      Right, but the Mercury News is titling things for its readership, which presumably by and large do know where it's based. And HN has a policy of not altering titles. So, voila.
junto 11y ago
California needs this as snow though right? Flash floods and the water ends up in the sea. Snow and the water is available as it melts over the year.
- Shivetya 11y ago
  Yeah because one of California's issues is they put into place extensive means to direct rain water into the ocean. Only one city went the route of creating aquifers to retain it; their name escapes me at the moment.
  - bebop 11y ago
    The city's name is Downey. Here is an article that kinda talks about it, half way through: http://www.dailynews.com/environment-and-nature/20141203/how-does-los-angeles-county-use-storm-water-runoff http://www.dailynews.com/environment-and-nature/20141203/how...
- jagermo 11y ago
  But California could be ready for this, right? I mean it would make sense to build cisterns or something to collect the water and use it for the next drought? Or would that take too much foresight?
  - talmand 11y ago
    I would have to say that foresight is quickly becoming a lost art because it tends to only produce results in long term settings. If it doesn't produce results today, tomorrow at latest, then no one wants to step up.
- ghshephard 11y ago
  Precipitation in water form, particularly if it's over time, will really help replenish groundwater. A lot of farms in the central valley are pumping water, and the underground reservoirs are being depleted. Given the Drought/Flood nature of California, I would be surprised if they weren't seriously looking at figuring out how to store excess water in underground aquifer's during their seasons of plenty. http://www.citywestwater.com.au/our_news_storing_water_300m_deep_aquifer_storage_and_recovery.aspx http://www.citywestwater.com.au/our_news_storing_water_300m_... [Edit - See: http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/bridge/TS80-218.pdf http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/bridge/TS80-218.pdf for more than you ever wanted to know about underground storage of water] [Edit 2 - Apparently Storing water underground is a very, very well known approach to water management - http://www.srpnet.com/newsroom/releases/042015.aspx http://www.srpnet.com/newsroom/releases/042015.aspx
delbel 11y ago
If we were really motivated, we could start a gigantic project to build more reservoirs and lakes up in the mountains to capture this rain. Even if they were to fill only every 10-20 years I'm sure there'd be some cost benefits over desalination. Even if they leaked. Long term protection from run off erosion of the top soil would outweigh any short term environmental costs. Think permaculture on a massive terraforming scale.
- Jedd 11y ago
  A more permaculture approach would be to decrease run-off rates / increase infiltration capacity of soils over the entire region -- almost by definition permaculture isn't big on massive terraforming projects.
  - adrianN 11y ago
    Changing run-off rates of an entire region is a massive terraforming project.
    - Jedd 11y ago
      Yes, I see your point. I was responding to the specifics of the parent comment -- the suggestion to build reservoirs and lakes, which are necessarily large cost, time-consuming, high-impact, often high-maintenance, logistically challenging activities in comparison to, for example, simpler methods of improving temporary slowing and long-term infiltration and holding capacity features of soils. I'm thinking of very effective but definitely small scale activities -- one or two people with a small dozer or bobcat over a few days -- to install contour or keyline swales and bunds, erect fencing to exclude wild animals or livestock from sensitive areas, re-seeding / re-planting with more appropriate species, and so on. I guess it's a semantic question at some point -- but I think that because you _can_ apply these activities over an entire region doesn't necessarily make it a massive terraforming project, nor more importantly does it necessarily need to be. Massive projects engender feelings of helplessness and a kind of 'responsibility abrogation' for many individuals, often including an assumption that government and/or big-business are necessary to manage them, that it will be extremely costly, that it will take many years or decades to implement, and longer yet to have an effect. (And, if we're being cynical, a tacit assumption that it probably won't work anyway.)
daurnimator 11y ago
Bad news for australia :( http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/updates/articles/a008-el-nino-and-australia.shtml http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/updates/articles/a008-el-nino-... http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/enso/tracker/ http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/enso/tracker/
vfrogger 11y ago
This is great news, if only for the reason that there will be more Chris Farley GIF's on the internet.
cos2pi 11y ago
For those interested, the monthly report the article refers to is the NOAA/Climate Prediction Center ENSO discussion: http://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/analysis_monitoring/enso_advisory/ensodisc.html http://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/analysis_monitoring/en...

54 points by sinak 11y ago

rav 11y ago

The title should say "may trigger soaking winter storms in California".

evan_ 11y ago
Are you implying there are places in the world other than California? Interesting, this might require some further research.
- 3solarmasses 11y ago
  Indeed. I'm also interested in learning about these mythical non-california places.
- 0xdeadbeefbabe 11y ago
  Maybe other political parties too?
gregatragenet3 11y ago
It is in a newspaper from San Jose, California. Its implicit.
- mbreese 11y ago
  Not everyone here will immediately know that the Mercury News is a newspaper in San Jose.
  - dtparr 11y ago
    Right, but the Mercury News is titling things for its readership, which presumably by and large do know where it's based. And HN has a policy of not altering titles. So, voila.

junto 11y ago

California needs this as snow though right? Flash floods and the water ends up in the sea. Snow and the water is available as it melts over the year.

Shivetya 11y ago
Yeah because one of California's issues is they put into place extensive means to direct rain water into the ocean. Only one city went the route of creating aquifers to retain it; their name escapes me at the moment.
- bebop 11y ago
  The city's name is Downey. Here is an article that kinda talks about it, half way through: http://www.dailynews.com/environment-and-nature/20141203/how-does-los-angeles-county-use-storm-water-runoff http://www.dailynews.com/environment-and-nature/20141203/how...
jagermo 11y ago
But California could be ready for this, right? I mean it would make sense to build cisterns or something to collect the water and use it for the next drought? Or would that take too much foresight?
- talmand 11y ago
  I would have to say that foresight is quickly becoming a lost art because it tends to only produce results in long term settings. If it doesn't produce results today, tomorrow at latest, then no one wants to step up.
ghshephard 11y ago
Precipitation in water form, particularly if it's over time, will really help replenish groundwater. A lot of farms in the central valley are pumping water, and the underground reservoirs are being depleted. Given the Drought/Flood nature of California, I would be surprised if they weren't seriously looking at figuring out how to store excess water in underground aquifer's during their seasons of plenty. http://www.citywestwater.com.au/our_news_storing_water_300m_deep_aquifer_storage_and_recovery.aspx http://www.citywestwater.com.au/our_news_storing_water_300m_... [Edit - See: http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/bridge/TS80-218.pdf http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/bridge/TS80-218.pdf for more than you ever wanted to know about underground storage of water] [Edit 2 - Apparently Storing water underground is a very, very well known approach to water management - http://www.srpnet.com/newsroom/releases/042015.aspx http://www.srpnet.com/newsroom/releases/042015.aspx

delbel 11y ago

If we were really motivated, we could start a gigantic project to build more reservoirs and lakes up in the mountains to capture this rain. Even if they were to fill only every 10-20 years I'm sure there'd be some cost benefits over desalination. Even if they leaked. Long term protection from run off erosion of the top soil would outweigh any short term environmental costs. Think permaculture on a massive terraforming scale.

Jedd 11y ago
A more permaculture approach would be to decrease run-off rates / increase infiltration capacity of soils over the entire region -- almost by definition permaculture isn't big on massive terraforming projects.
- adrianN 11y ago
  Changing run-off rates of an entire region is a massive terraforming project.
  - Jedd 11y ago
    Yes, I see your point. I was responding to the specifics of the parent comment -- the suggestion to build reservoirs and lakes, which are necessarily large cost, time-consuming, high-impact, often high-maintenance, logistically challenging activities in comparison to, for example, simpler methods of improving temporary slowing and long-term infiltration and holding capacity features of soils. I'm thinking of very effective but definitely small scale activities -- one or two people with a small dozer or bobcat over a few days -- to install contour or keyline swales and bunds, erect fencing to exclude wild animals or livestock from sensitive areas, re-seeding / re-planting with more appropriate species, and so on. I guess it's a semantic question at some point -- but I think that because you _can_ apply these activities over an entire region doesn't necessarily make it a massive terraforming project, nor more importantly does it necessarily need to be. Massive projects engender feelings of helplessness and a kind of 'responsibility abrogation' for many individuals, often including an assumption that government and/or big-business are necessary to manage them, that it will be extremely costly, that it will take many years or decades to implement, and longer yet to have an effect. (And, if we're being cynical, a tacit assumption that it probably won't work anyway.)

daurnimator 11y ago

Bad news for australia :( http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/updates/articles/a008-el-nino-and-australia.shtml http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/updates/articles/a008-el-nino-... http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/enso/tracker/ http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/enso/tracker/

vfrogger 11y ago

This is great news, if only for the reason that there will be more Chris Farley GIF's on the internet.

cos2pi 11y ago

For those interested, the monthly report the article refers to is the NOAA/Climate Prediction Center ENSO discussion: http://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/analysis_monitoring/enso_advisory/ensodisc.html http://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/analysis_monitoring/en...