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"the "hard" work is figuring out what to build and how it should work" That's something I like to think I'm good at. For my major project I have a 6/7 page pla

"the "hard" work is figuring out what to build and how it should work" That's something I like to think I'm good at. For my major project I have a 6/7 page planning document that I've been working on, and I have design mockups made. I think I know pretty well what I want to build. I really would like to just start/try with something, but I'm worried that could end up being a "death sentence" in the future where I find out I just wasted a few months learning something that doesn't work or help me succeed.

rahimnathwani 11y ago
"I really would like to just start/try with something, but I'm worried that could end up being a "death sentence" in the future where I find out I just wasted a few months learning something that doesn't work or help me succeed." I'm assuming you're building a web app. Both Rails and Django work. There's plenty of evidence that they work, and that people can learn either of them as they build. Just toss a coin: heads->Rails, tails->Django. If you chose Rails, start with 'Learn Ruby the Hard Way', and then progress to Hartl's Rails Tutorial. If you chose Django, start with 'Learn Python the Hard Way', and then progress to the official Django Tutorial, and then to the book 'Two Scoops of Django'. You don't need to worry that you're wasting time. It's the worrying itself that is wasting time. Just toss a coin and get started. (Many of us have been where you are.)
- starshadowx2 11y ago
  I've eyed Rails a bit and it's something I'm going to look more into. I just wasn't sure if it was what I was looking for. If it's good for a web and mobile app then that's great, and I guess it can do both front and backend so that seems pretty good too. Would you say it's a better choice for my situation than going with some form of JavaScript?
  - rahimnathwani 11y ago
    Don't overthink it. Just start. For your situation, I would pick Rails or Django. There's no reason not to start with one of those. If you decide you want to use JavaScript, then your next post on HN might be in one year: "I've been trying to learn JavaScript for the past year, but I'm struggling to get anything built. Every time I think I get it, I read about another new stack which is meant to be better than the last. I started with just JQuery, but then Backbone, and then Angular. Then I heard about React and decided to start again from scratch. But I can't get past the todo app examples..."
abathur 11y ago
I think you're still talking about a small slice of what you can learn by getting your hands dirty, even if it's all "wrong" and you learn a language that can't be re-used. The "slice" thing is especially true early on. Rather than a "death sentence", try imagining the 1-10 scale of outcomes a year from now is like: 10: knowing how to accomplish real work on a project with proven economic value in a language with infinite high-paying jobs available 7: knowing how to accomplish real work on a non-commercial codebase in an obscure language 3: having an elaborate plan but no work 1: having nothing
- starshadowx2 11y ago
  The only thing is, I have no inclination in any way of coding for a job. It's not what I want to do with my life, I just need to learn it to get things started. I don't just want to be another "ideas guy" who can't build his own MVP/Beta and then ask a technical co-founder to do everything for me. In the future however, hopefully I will be able to hire good coders and not have to do as much myself, yet still be able to understand and help them. Coding for me at the moment is just a means to an end. Which is why I really don't want to waste any time with this and am looking to professionals for help.
  - jklein11 11y ago
    Are you genuinely interested in learning how to code and just don't think it would be as fulfilling as operating the business needs? If not, that might be your issue with getting started with programming. Being an "ideas guy" who is effective at both creating products that add value for their target audience and describing your vision to others so that they can share it is just as valuable as writing code. If you are more interested in strategic vision than writing code maybe you should focus on finding someone technical to share your vision. Remember, every Jobs needs a Wozniak.
    - starshadowx2 11y ago
      I 100% agree with you. If I knew someone technical that I trusted I would be all over trying to convince them to work with me. Believe me when I say I've tried, but my current location is not a good place for people with technical skills. It's actually been quite frustrating so my next step is try to build an MVP/prototype myself which I can then hopefully use to either get into an accelerator or to show investors who have the connections I need with good technical people. Other than that I am also trying to figure out how I can get myself to SF and actually be able to go to meetups/etc. It's not like I hate the idea of coding, like I said I'm still a techy guy, it's just more like a chore to me at the moment. Not something I really want to do but it seems like I have to. I've read so much about lone non-tech founders struggling or not getting looked at, so until I can get a partner I'm sorta stuck without many options.
quadrature 11y ago
This is not the right attitude to have when you're starting from square one. EVen if you learn something that isn't immediately useful its still valuable programming experience and since you're picking things that will be relevant to building apps it will most likely be relevant later on or in another project. You can't just skip the baby steps and expect to be able to cultivate a expert level understanding of the technical tradeoffs involved in designing a system. You're more likely to get stuck in an analysis paralysis if you aren't willing to take small suboptimal steps towards your end goal.

rahimnathwani 11y ago

"I really would like to just start/try with something, but I'm worried that could end up being a "death sentence" in the future where I find out I just wasted a few months learning something that doesn't work or help me succeed." I'm assuming you're building a web app. Both Rails and Django work. There's plenty of evidence that they work, and that people can learn either of them as they build. Just toss a coin: heads->Rails, tails->Django. If you chose Rails, start with 'Learn Ruby the Hard Way', and then progress to Hartl's Rails Tutorial. If you chose Django, start with 'Learn Python the Hard Way', and then progress to the official Django Tutorial, and then to the book 'Two Scoops of Django'. You don't need to worry that you're wasting time. It's the worrying itself that is wasting time. Just toss a coin and get started. (Many of us have been where you are.)

starshadowx2 11y ago
I've eyed Rails a bit and it's something I'm going to look more into. I just wasn't sure if it was what I was looking for. If it's good for a web and mobile app then that's great, and I guess it can do both front and backend so that seems pretty good too. Would you say it's a better choice for my situation than going with some form of JavaScript?
- rahimnathwani 11y ago
  Don't overthink it. Just start. For your situation, I would pick Rails or Django. There's no reason not to start with one of those. If you decide you want to use JavaScript, then your next post on HN might be in one year: "I've been trying to learn JavaScript for the past year, but I'm struggling to get anything built. Every time I think I get it, I read about another new stack which is meant to be better than the last. I started with just JQuery, but then Backbone, and then Angular. Then I heard about React and decided to start again from scratch. But I can't get past the todo app examples..."

abathur 11y ago

I think you're still talking about a small slice of what you can learn by getting your hands dirty, even if it's all "wrong" and you learn a language that can't be re-used. The "slice" thing is especially true early on. Rather than a "death sentence", try imagining the 1-10 scale of outcomes a year from now is like: 10: knowing how to accomplish real work on a project with proven economic value in a language with infinite high-paying jobs available 7: knowing how to accomplish real work on a non-commercial codebase in an obscure language 3: having an elaborate plan but no work 1: having nothing

starshadowx2 11y ago
The only thing is, I have no inclination in any way of coding for a job. It's not what I want to do with my life, I just need to learn it to get things started. I don't just want to be another "ideas guy" who can't build his own MVP/Beta and then ask a technical co-founder to do everything for me. In the future however, hopefully I will be able to hire good coders and not have to do as much myself, yet still be able to understand and help them. Coding for me at the moment is just a means to an end. Which is why I really don't want to waste any time with this and am looking to professionals for help.
- jklein11 11y ago
  Are you genuinely interested in learning how to code and just don't think it would be as fulfilling as operating the business needs? If not, that might be your issue with getting started with programming. Being an "ideas guy" who is effective at both creating products that add value for their target audience and describing your vision to others so that they can share it is just as valuable as writing code. If you are more interested in strategic vision than writing code maybe you should focus on finding someone technical to share your vision. Remember, every Jobs needs a Wozniak.
  - starshadowx2 11y ago
    I 100% agree with you. If I knew someone technical that I trusted I would be all over trying to convince them to work with me. Believe me when I say I've tried, but my current location is not a good place for people with technical skills. It's actually been quite frustrating so my next step is try to build an MVP/prototype myself which I can then hopefully use to either get into an accelerator or to show investors who have the connections I need with good technical people. Other than that I am also trying to figure out how I can get myself to SF and actually be able to go to meetups/etc. It's not like I hate the idea of coding, like I said I'm still a techy guy, it's just more like a chore to me at the moment. Not something I really want to do but it seems like I have to. I've read so much about lone non-tech founders struggling or not getting looked at, so until I can get a partner I'm sorta stuck without many options.

quadrature 11y ago

This is not the right attitude to have when you're starting from square one. EVen if you learn something that isn't immediately useful its still valuable programming experience and since you're picking things that will be relevant to building apps it will most likely be relevant later on or in another project. You can't just skip the baby steps and expect to be able to cultivate a expert level understanding of the technical tradeoffs involved in designing a system. You're more likely to get stuck in an analysis paralysis if you aren't willing to take small suboptimal steps towards your end goal.