4 ms·

"Trading an asset" What exactly are you trading? Bits in a database that mark ownership of a fraction of a fictional entity?

leereeves 11y ago
Not a 'fictional' entity; a legal construct (perhaps multilayered) that groups ownership of real assets and/or obligations of real people.
- jsprogrammer 11y ago
  The fiction is to believe that 'a legal construct (perhaps multilayered) that groups ownership of real assets and/or obligations of real people' is an entity.
  - tghw 11y ago
    You're basically saying that contracts are fictional. Try entering into a contract, then behaving as if it's fictional by ignoring your responsibilities in the contract, and you will quickly find out how real they are.
    - jsprogrammer 11y ago
      >You're basically saying that contracts are fictional. Nope (although, that may be true, in some sense), I am not saying that. I am saying the thing many refer to as an 'entity', as in, 'the corporate entity', is a fictional thing. It has no real, inherent or independent physical existence apart from the people that choose to represent it.
      - tghw 11y ago
        There's no fundamental difference between a corporate entity and a contract. Just because it has no physical manifestation doesn't mean it's a fiction.
- steve-howard 11y ago
  The company is in that sense a "legal fiction," which seems to confuse people. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_fiction https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_fiction
marvin 11y ago
There is nothing fictional about the ownership of a fraction of a profitable enterprise. This shouldn't be more difficult than the concept of negative numbers, or any other useful non-physical concept. Ditto for options or any other construct that has a mathematical or market-based value.
- jsprogrammer 11y ago
  >There is nothing fictional about the ownership of a fraction of a profitable enterprise. Please read more carefully. I never claimed any such thing. 'fictional' modifies 'entity', not 'ownership'.
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
  - jsprogrammer 11y ago
    Wow, down modded for a factual post. Will need to rethink my involvement here.
s73v3r 11y ago
"What exactly are you trading?" Part ownership of a company. To say anything else is to show yourself to be completely naive.
- jsprogrammer 11y ago
  All 'assets' that are traded are not necessarily part ownership of a company. Some are pure voting rights. Some are rights to dividends. Some are rights to loan payments. To believe that all assets are 'part ownership of a company' is not only naive, but incorrect and delusional.

leereeves 11y ago

Not a 'fictional' entity; a legal construct (perhaps multilayered) that groups ownership of real assets and/or obligations of real people.

jsprogrammer 11y ago
The fiction is to believe that 'a legal construct (perhaps multilayered) that groups ownership of real assets and/or obligations of real people' is an entity.
- tghw 11y ago
  You're basically saying that contracts are fictional. Try entering into a contract, then behaving as if it's fictional by ignoring your responsibilities in the contract, and you will quickly find out how real they are.
  - jsprogrammer 11y ago
    >You're basically saying that contracts are fictional. Nope (although, that may be true, in some sense), I am not saying that. I am saying the thing many refer to as an 'entity', as in, 'the corporate entity', is a fictional thing. It has no real, inherent or independent physical existence apart from the people that choose to represent it.
    - tghw 11y ago
      There's no fundamental difference between a corporate entity and a contract. Just because it has no physical manifestation doesn't mean it's a fiction.
steve-howard 11y ago
The company is in that sense a "legal fiction," which seems to confuse people. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_fiction https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_fiction

marvin 11y ago

There is nothing fictional about the ownership of a fraction of a profitable enterprise. This shouldn't be more difficult than the concept of negative numbers, or any other useful non-physical concept. Ditto for options or any other construct that has a mathematical or market-based value.

jsprogrammer 11y ago
>There is nothing fictional about the ownership of a fraction of a profitable enterprise. Please read more carefully. I never claimed any such thing. 'fictional' modifies 'entity', not 'ownership'.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- jsprogrammer 11y ago
  Wow, down modded for a factual post. Will need to rethink my involvement here.

s73v3r 11y ago

"What exactly are you trading?" Part ownership of a company. To say anything else is to show yourself to be completely naive.

jsprogrammer 11y ago
All 'assets' that are traded are not necessarily part ownership of a company. Some are pure voting rights. Some are rights to dividends. Some are rights to loan payments. To believe that all assets are 'part ownership of a company' is not only naive, but incorrect and delusional.