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I guess what Germany went though can be described as complete change of the system (similar to Russia post revolution). Greeks merely elected a different govern

by omonra 11y ago

I guess what Germany went though can be described as complete change of the system (similar to Russia post revolution). Greeks merely elected a different government while keeping the system intact. If they were taken over by the Troika who would do as they pleased, I imagine that would likely precipitate debt writeoff. The problem is that the Greeks want to keep things as they were / be forgiven the debt. That's mutually exclusive.

afterburner 11y ago
"The problem is that the Greeks want to keep things as they were" I don't think that's true, if you remember that they just elected a very different party into government.
- omonra 11y ago
  I'm talking about things that led to the financial catastrophe: Low productivity Entitlement system Patronage system etc These may be nice things to have but they simply don't have the money to pay for them. The austerity they've felt has probably gone 1/3 of the way of what is needed (random guess - maybe more or less). And then they elected this new government because it was too painful. I fully sympathize with their plight - it's similar to a nation going on unemployment after having a nice middle-class job. But there is simply no moral case that other EU members should be sponsoring their former lifestyle.
  - afterburner 11y ago
    Austerity is not the same as entitlement reform. Austerity is targeting a surplus regardless of the costs, which in this case tanked GDP faster than they could pay off debt, meaning the dept to GDP ratio got much worse. Entitlement reform is an entirely separate thing. And given that Syriza has, in fact, slashed pensions and raised the retirement age, they are clearly willing to do that. Since they are a new party dedicated to breaking with the past governance, they are also willing to embrace change. And since they won the election, this means the population gave them a mandate to do exactly that. The old party, which was responsible for many of the entitlements in the first place, sure as heck wasn't willing to change Greece. Complaining about the new party seems strangely misplaced.

by omonra 11y ago

afterburner 11y ago

"The problem is that the Greeks want to keep things as they were" I don't think that's true, if you remember that they just elected a very different party into government.

omonra 11y ago
I'm talking about things that led to the financial catastrophe: Low productivity Entitlement system Patronage system etc These may be nice things to have but they simply don't have the money to pay for them. The austerity they've felt has probably gone 1/3 of the way of what is needed (random guess - maybe more or less). And then they elected this new government because it was too painful. I fully sympathize with their plight - it's similar to a nation going on unemployment after having a nice middle-class job. But there is simply no moral case that other EU members should be sponsoring their former lifestyle.
- afterburner 11y ago
  Austerity is not the same as entitlement reform. Austerity is targeting a surplus regardless of the costs, which in this case tanked GDP faster than they could pay off debt, meaning the dept to GDP ratio got much worse. Entitlement reform is an entirely separate thing. And given that Syriza has, in fact, slashed pensions and raised the retirement age, they are clearly willing to do that. Since they are a new party dedicated to breaking with the past governance, they are also willing to embrace change. And since they won the election, this means the population gave them a mandate to do exactly that. The old party, which was responsible for many of the entitlements in the first place, sure as heck wasn't willing to change Greece. Complaining about the new party seems strangely misplaced.