5 ms·

Deutsche Telekom wants to be like Comcast

31 points by steven 11y ago

AdmiralAsshat 11y ago
All companies want to be like Comcast. Comcast's model is rather profitable. Most companies, however, don't think they would ever be able to get away with the kind of stuff Comcast does.
- venomsnake 11y ago
  When the new Robespierre comes he will have to do a lot of work. But thankfully with global elites concentrated in London and NY we will need only 2 revolutions to get there :)
- cJ0th 11y ago
  Actually, Merkel seems to endorse what Mr Dannenfeldt wants. > Wir brauchen Veränderungen im Wettbewerbsrecht, weil wir heute einen fragmentierten Markt haben, weil wahrscheinlich auch der Blickwinkel – Was ist eine Monopolstellung in Europa? – ein falscher ist. Und wenn wir in China wenige Telekommunikationsanbieter haben, in den USA wenige, und in Europa mehr als die Zahl der Mitgliedsstaaten, dann können die nie eine globale Kraft entfalten und hier muss das erst ansetzen.[0] What she basically says is this: laws of competition need to change. Since the USA and China have much fewer telcos Europe needs to have fewer as well so that the remaining companies can operate on a scale that is globally competitive. [0] https://netzpolitik.org/2015/merkel-stellt-sich-gegen-datenschutz-und-netzneutralitaet/ https://netzpolitik.org/2015/merkel-stellt-sich-gegen-datens...
  - PythonicAlpha 11y ago
    Ugly, ugly, ugly. Just to copy anything, because it comes from the US. Monopolies help only one: The monopolist. We already have a de-facto monopoly in Germany. And, yes, I hate Mrs. Merkel, because she makes anything, the big bosses want! She is our Walker Bush and is the leader of the Lemmings.
raverbashing 11y ago
Sensationalised title Granted, Deutsche Telekom is already responsible for a lot of crap German users have to endure (like long waits to have an internet connection) But I guess since most of their customers would be satisfied of using a disk dial phone and usage is kept low by fines to torrent users and half of Youtube being censored by GEMA they have little incentive to change.
- PythonicAlpha 11y ago
  > But I guess since most of their customers would be satisfied of using a disk dial phone and usage is kept low by fines to torrent users and half of Youtube being censored by GEMA they have little incentive to change. I see, that you don't know the German internet customers. Internet usage is also rising in Germany and things like Netflix, cloud and other (legal!) broadband services are also known in "good old Germany". There are also Germans, that own no disk dial phone any more ... The commentator "jand" already explained very good, how the Telekom is acting in Germany ...
  - venomsnake 11y ago
    I think that jand was sarcastic ...
    - PythonicAlpha 11y ago
      I think, you mean the OP, not jand. Since jand did describe the situation rather well.
  - raverbashing 11y ago
    > I see, that you don't know the German internet customers. I see a lot of people complaining. I haven't had the pleasure of signing up for 'wired' internet, rather, relying on 3G data access > Internet usage is also rising in Germany and things like Netflix, cloud and other (legal!) broadband services Yes, I know about those, Netflix just got there, so let's see what happens But still, Internet services are not as good as in Ireland for example
- 11y ago
jand 11y ago
This is not directly related to the article but it helps to put the code of conduct of the Deutsche Telekom into perspective: The Deutsche Telekom inherited the copper infrastructure, when the state-owned Deutsche Post AG was split into private corporations in 1989. Due to this inheritance they are reluctant to build fiber-optical infrastructure. Because they are obligated to allow access to this infrastructure to competitors, they try different ways to put obstacles in competitors path, e.g. by suddenly embracing vectoring which effectivly denies access to competitors. So the customer cannot benefit from fiber optical tech, has bought the whole infrastructure for DT and now pays for it again. The competitors - if not denied access to the DT infrastructure - pay fees to use the infrastructure. So basically the DT has a copper infrastructure which it never paid for, is unwilling to improve and gets money for from many different parties. Their much advertised IPO worked... for the DT, while most of the private investors still feel the burn. They paid roughly 63 EUR per share which immediately dropped to round about 15 EUR which equals the current share price. There are still 17.000 investors sueing over the assumption that the DT knowingly falsified the IPO information.
zoidb 11y ago
After recently moving to Berlin from the states I miss Comcast. Not something I ever thought I would say but it's true. Internet plans are expensive, most if not all the reasonably priced ones have data caps and the support is horrible. To get my internet connected not only do you have to wait months but once an appointment is made it is actually impossible to reschedule or cancel it. This is all anecdotal granted but from others I talked to experiences have been similar with DT.
- soylentcola 11y ago
  Really? Comcast also has similar caps and customer support is horrible but I pay around US$70/mo for 50Mbit/s downstream compared to something like Kabel Deutschland which seems to offer 100Mbit/s downstream for US$22-44/mo (lower price is promotional for first year). Also, while I bought my own modem and router to avoid Comcast's additional rental fee, the German company includes it in the cost. I don't doubt that they also suck in terms of customer service and will take your word for that since I don't have experience with them. Still, unless there is something I'm missing, it would seem that you can get double what I can get for 2/3 or less cost. (*disclaimer: I only looked into some popular cable internet providers and looked at their site to get a quick overview. If I'm missing some detail that customers would know about, I would not be surprised.)
maxharris 11y ago
How does Deutsche Telekom stack up against Comcast on a per-mile cost basis? I.e., what does it cost, on average, to send a bit over the same distance, with the same latency, on each network? We have to go by a per-mile (or per-km) statistic here because Germany has a vastly higher population density than the US, which means that it has to put or buy far less cable in the ground to build an equivalent telecommunications network in Germany. Before anyone pours more hate on Comcast, does anyone actually know the answer to this question?

31 points by steven 11y ago

All companies want to be like Comcast. Comcast's model is rather profitable. Most companies, however, don't think they would ever be able to get away with the kind of stuff Comcast does.

venomsnake 11y ago
When the new Robespierre comes he will have to do a lot of work. But thankfully with global elites concentrated in London and NY we will need only 2 revolutions to get there :)
cJ0th 11y ago
Actually, Merkel seems to endorse what Mr Dannenfeldt wants. > Wir brauchen Veränderungen im Wettbewerbsrecht, weil wir heute einen fragmentierten Markt haben, weil wahrscheinlich auch der Blickwinkel – Was ist eine Monopolstellung in Europa? – ein falscher ist. Und wenn wir in China wenige Telekommunikationsanbieter haben, in den USA wenige, und in Europa mehr als die Zahl der Mitgliedsstaaten, dann können die nie eine globale Kraft entfalten und hier muss das erst ansetzen.[0] What she basically says is this: laws of competition need to change. Since the USA and China have much fewer telcos Europe needs to have fewer as well so that the remaining companies can operate on a scale that is globally competitive. [0] https://netzpolitik.org/2015/merkel-stellt-sich-gegen-datenschutz-und-netzneutralitaet/ https://netzpolitik.org/2015/merkel-stellt-sich-gegen-datens...
- PythonicAlpha 11y ago
  Ugly, ugly, ugly. Just to copy anything, because it comes from the US. Monopolies help only one: The monopolist. We already have a de-facto monopoly in Germany. And, yes, I hate Mrs. Merkel, because she makes anything, the big bosses want! She is our Walker Bush and is the leader of the Lemmings.

raverbashing 11y ago

Sensationalised title Granted, Deutsche Telekom is already responsible for a lot of crap German users have to endure (like long waits to have an internet connection) But I guess since most of their customers would be satisfied of using a disk dial phone and usage is kept low by fines to torrent users and half of Youtube being censored by GEMA they have little incentive to change.

PythonicAlpha 11y ago
> But I guess since most of their customers would be satisfied of using a disk dial phone and usage is kept low by fines to torrent users and half of Youtube being censored by GEMA they have little incentive to change. I see, that you don't know the German internet customers. Internet usage is also rising in Germany and things like Netflix, cloud and other (legal!) broadband services are also known in "good old Germany". There are also Germans, that own no disk dial phone any more ... The commentator "jand" already explained very good, how the Telekom is acting in Germany ...
- venomsnake 11y ago
  I think that jand was sarcastic ...
  - PythonicAlpha 11y ago
    I think, you mean the OP, not jand. Since jand did describe the situation rather well.
- raverbashing 11y ago
  > I see, that you don't know the German internet customers. I see a lot of people complaining. I haven't had the pleasure of signing up for 'wired' internet, rather, relying on 3G data access > Internet usage is also rising in Germany and things like Netflix, cloud and other (legal!) broadband services Yes, I know about those, Netflix just got there, so let's see what happens But still, Internet services are not as good as in Ireland for example
11y ago

jand 11y ago

This is not directly related to the article but it helps to put the code of conduct of the Deutsche Telekom into perspective: The Deutsche Telekom inherited the copper infrastructure, when the state-owned Deutsche Post AG was split into private corporations in 1989. Due to this inheritance they are reluctant to build fiber-optical infrastructure. Because they are obligated to allow access to this infrastructure to competitors, they try different ways to put obstacles in competitors path, e.g. by suddenly embracing vectoring which effectivly denies access to competitors. So the customer cannot benefit from fiber optical tech, has bought the whole infrastructure for DT and now pays for it again. The competitors - if not denied access to the DT infrastructure - pay fees to use the infrastructure. So basically the DT has a copper infrastructure which it never paid for, is unwilling to improve and gets money for from many different parties. Their much advertised IPO worked... for the DT, while most of the private investors still feel the burn. They paid roughly 63 EUR per share which immediately dropped to round about 15 EUR which equals the current share price. There are still 17.000 investors sueing over the assumption that the DT knowingly falsified the IPO information.

zoidb 11y ago

After recently moving to Berlin from the states I miss Comcast. Not something I ever thought I would say but it's true. Internet plans are expensive, most if not all the reasonably priced ones have data caps and the support is horrible. To get my internet connected not only do you have to wait months but once an appointment is made it is actually impossible to reschedule or cancel it. This is all anecdotal granted but from others I talked to experiences have been similar with DT.

soylentcola 11y ago
Really? Comcast also has similar caps and customer support is horrible but I pay around US$70/mo for 50Mbit/s downstream compared to something like Kabel Deutschland which seems to offer 100Mbit/s downstream for US$22-44/mo (lower price is promotional for first year). Also, while I bought my own modem and router to avoid Comcast's additional rental fee, the German company includes it in the cost. I don't doubt that they also suck in terms of customer service and will take your word for that since I don't have experience with them. Still, unless there is something I'm missing, it would seem that you can get double what I can get for 2/3 or less cost. (*disclaimer: I only looked into some popular cable internet providers and looked at their site to get a quick overview. If I'm missing some detail that customers would know about, I would not be surprised.)

maxharris 11y ago

How does Deutsche Telekom stack up against Comcast on a per-mile cost basis? I.e., what does it cost, on average, to send a bit over the same distance, with the same latency, on each network? We have to go by a per-mile (or per-km) statistic here because Germany has a vastly higher population density than the US, which means that it has to put or buy far less cable in the ground to build an equivalent telecommunications network in Germany. Before anyone pours more hate on Comcast, does anyone actually know the answer to this question?