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> So at the moment the general stance (not only in germany) is quid pro quo - do your reforms and we'll fund you. Which is insanity that will never work. You

> So at the moment the general stance (not only in germany) is quid pro quo - do your reforms and we'll fund you. Which is insanity that will never work. You will just end up in an endless cycle of the Grecian economy worsening, the Grecian debt rising, and more pleas for debt relief, as has already been happening. > They're also asking for funding from economies that are much worse of and went through similarly bad recessions[1]. These same destructive austerity policies have destroyed most economies in Europe. Look at the number of European economies that have not even reached their pre-2008 GDP due to these policies. Many are only beginning to recover now as austerity tapers off. In several the debt actually worsened because of falling GDP and rising unemployment. Austerity policies have achieved nothing except for needlessly higher taxes, the rollback of parts of the welfare system at the expense of prolonged recessions and minimal (or no) debt reduction or debt increase. And yet, people think more austerity is the solution for Greece? How can this be? How many times do troika GDP estimates have to be radically and totally wrong before people realize austerity is only destructive?

Xylakant 11y ago
> Which is insanity that will never work. You will just end up in an endless cycle of the Grecian economy worsening, the Grecian debt rising, and more pleas for debt relief, as has already been happening. So what will work? Do a haircut and then hand them more money? Will that work? Because that's what they're asking for. A third bailout is what's being asked for.
- Amezarak 11y ago
  Yes, major debt forgiveness and enough money to stimulate the economy would work, and in the long-term, a real fiscal union in the EU that automatically handles these kinds of issues. Monetary policy in the Eurozone that put inflation above the present 0.2% would be helpful. A Grexit would work and is probably the only realistic option, because the above two things are not going to happen. Some of these options would also be painful, but at least there would be an end in sight. There is no end in sight with the loan request -> austerity demands -> worsening economy -> loan request cycle. Almost anything Greece does will be better than continuing in the same self-destructive cycle.
  - Xylakant 11y ago
    > enough money to stimulate the economy would work, That might indeed work. But who's supposed to foot the bill? Since greece does not have the money and greece is openly stating they can't even pay the current loans. And I don't see how debt-forgiveness is helping here. A default might help, but greece is running a marginal primary surplus at best, so even with a default they'd be stuck where they are - in a pretty shitty place. The only thing I could see that would help is a fiscal union, but a fiscal union would require all parties to give up some part of their control and seriously, I don't see that happening (though I wish it would)

Xylakant 11y ago

> Which is insanity that will never work. You will just end up in an endless cycle of the Grecian economy worsening, the Grecian debt rising, and more pleas for debt relief, as has already been happening. So what will work? Do a haircut and then hand them more money? Will that work? Because that's what they're asking for. A third bailout is what's being asked for.

Amezarak 11y ago
Yes, major debt forgiveness and enough money to stimulate the economy would work, and in the long-term, a real fiscal union in the EU that automatically handles these kinds of issues. Monetary policy in the Eurozone that put inflation above the present 0.2% would be helpful. A Grexit would work and is probably the only realistic option, because the above two things are not going to happen. Some of these options would also be painful, but at least there would be an end in sight. There is no end in sight with the loan request -> austerity demands -> worsening economy -> loan request cycle. Almost anything Greece does will be better than continuing in the same self-destructive cycle.
- Xylakant 11y ago
  > enough money to stimulate the economy would work, That might indeed work. But who's supposed to foot the bill? Since greece does not have the money and greece is openly stating they can't even pay the current loans. And I don't see how debt-forgiveness is helping here. A default might help, but greece is running a marginal primary surplus at best, so even with a default they'd be stuck where they are - in a pretty shitty place. The only thing I could see that would help is a fiscal union, but a fiscal union would require all parties to give up some part of their control and seriously, I don't see that happening (though I wish it would)