3 ms·

There are piles of examples of Russ being curt, I'm quite surprised by the response my comment is receiving. I guess I shouldn't have presumed about Russ' repu

by codemac 11y ago

There are piles of examples of Russ being curt, I'm quite surprised by the response my comment is receiving. I guess I shouldn't have presumed about Russ' reputation - but he definitely has a very negative reputation with me.

coldtea 11y ago
Reading golang-nuts, he always came off as curt and "wise-ass" (of course, given his knowledge and experience, perhaps often justyfingly so, but still). And not in the over-the-top, theatrical way Linus does it which is mostly style, you feel there's real sneer.
- throwaway999666 11y ago
  > of course, given his knowledge and experience, perhaps often justyfingly so, but still. Always with the half-excuses for people with technical ability/track record. "Well he comes off as kind of rude, buut he kind of knows what he's doing so the arrogance is maybe warranted". Just goes to show that technical ability and dealing with people even in a technical setting are two very different things. I guess that is the reward for a technical track record? Being half-excused for lording it over other people? Disclaimer: I know nothing about Cox' online personality. I'm just addressing how people react to rude (or whatever the intent is) technical people.
  - coldtea 11y ago
    >Always with the half-excuses for people with technical ability/track record. "Well he comes off as kind of rude, buut he kind of knows what he's doing so the arrogance is maybe warranted". Just goes to show that technical ability and dealing with people even in a technical setting are two very different things. I guess that is the reward for a technical track record? Being half-excused for lording it over other people? Well, I guess that's life. If you can do somebody else cannot do, and they need you to do it, you get to dictate the terms and be rude. Ideally we'd all like rainbows and kindness, but you know...
    - throwaway999666 11y ago
      No you moved the goalpost from half-justifying, to "tough shit, sometimes you just gotta deal with it". Which I agree with insofar that some things are just "the way they are", but it's a completely different argument.
      - coldtea 11y ago
        Wait, what goalpost? I wasn't making an argument initially, I was making an observation: "He's curt, maybe justifyingly so, but still...". Then I further expanded upon that, based on the comment I got, that "that's how it is, if you're good at something you often get to dictate how you treat people who want it". Wasn't meaning it to be an argument (to be met with counter arguments, to move goalposts, etc), just plain observation of how it is, as I see it, in both cases.
- rsc 11y ago
  Like throwaway999666, I don't believe that knowledge or experience is justification for being unkind. I try to be as kind and friendly and helpful as possible to everyone who asks for help with Go. Obviously that didn't come across in the emails you're referring to, and I apologize for that. If you're willing to point to specific examples, I'm interested to look at them so I can adjust what I write in the future. Mail to rsc@golang.org is probably best, since this is getting a bit off-topic, but a reply here is fine too. The comparison with Linus is interesting to me, since I've always interpreted Linus's rants as real venom, not just theatrical style. But I don't know Linus, so maybe I'm misreading the rants.
dilap 11y ago
This blows my mind. As a random Go user and internet reader, rsc is amazing, & I've never seen instances of him being what I would consider unfriendly. (What is 'friendliness' and 'unfriendliness' varies lots though, culturally.)
rsc 11y ago
Like I wrote to coldtea below, I try to be as friendly and helpful as possible to everyone who posts to the mailing lists about Go. Obviously that didn't come across in the examples you're referring to, and I apologize for that. If you're willing to point out specific examples, I'd like to understand what I'm doing so I can make adjustments. Mail to rsc@golang.org is probably best, since this is getting a bit off-topic, but a reply here is fine too. Thanks.

by codemac 11y ago

coldtea 11y ago

Reading golang-nuts, he always came off as curt and "wise-ass" (of course, given his knowledge and experience, perhaps often justyfingly so, but still). And not in the over-the-top, theatrical way Linus does it which is mostly style, you feel there's real sneer.

throwaway999666 11y ago
> of course, given his knowledge and experience, perhaps often justyfingly so, but still. Always with the half-excuses for people with technical ability/track record. "Well he comes off as kind of rude, buut he kind of knows what he's doing so the arrogance is maybe warranted". Just goes to show that technical ability and dealing with people even in a technical setting are two very different things. I guess that is the reward for a technical track record? Being half-excused for lording it over other people? Disclaimer: I know nothing about Cox' online personality. I'm just addressing how people react to rude (or whatever the intent is) technical people.
- coldtea 11y ago
  >Always with the half-excuses for people with technical ability/track record. "Well he comes off as kind of rude, buut he kind of knows what he's doing so the arrogance is maybe warranted". Just goes to show that technical ability and dealing with people even in a technical setting are two very different things. I guess that is the reward for a technical track record? Being half-excused for lording it over other people? Well, I guess that's life. If you can do somebody else cannot do, and they need you to do it, you get to dictate the terms and be rude. Ideally we'd all like rainbows and kindness, but you know...
  - throwaway999666 11y ago
    No you moved the goalpost from half-justifying, to "tough shit, sometimes you just gotta deal with it". Which I agree with insofar that some things are just "the way they are", but it's a completely different argument.
    - coldtea 11y ago
      Wait, what goalpost? I wasn't making an argument initially, I was making an observation: "He's curt, maybe justifyingly so, but still...". Then I further expanded upon that, based on the comment I got, that "that's how it is, if you're good at something you often get to dictate how you treat people who want it". Wasn't meaning it to be an argument (to be met with counter arguments, to move goalposts, etc), just plain observation of how it is, as I see it, in both cases.
rsc 11y ago
Like throwaway999666, I don't believe that knowledge or experience is justification for being unkind. I try to be as kind and friendly and helpful as possible to everyone who asks for help with Go. Obviously that didn't come across in the emails you're referring to, and I apologize for that. If you're willing to point to specific examples, I'm interested to look at them so I can adjust what I write in the future. Mail to rsc@golang.org is probably best, since this is getting a bit off-topic, but a reply here is fine too. The comparison with Linus is interesting to me, since I've always interpreted Linus's rants as real venom, not just theatrical style. But I don't know Linus, so maybe I'm misreading the rants.

dilap 11y ago

This blows my mind. As a random Go user and internet reader, rsc is amazing, & I've never seen instances of him being what I would consider unfriendly. (What is 'friendliness' and 'unfriendliness' varies lots though, culturally.)

rsc 11y ago

Like I wrote to coldtea below, I try to be as friendly and helpful as possible to everyone who posts to the mailing lists about Go. Obviously that didn't come across in the examples you're referring to, and I apologize for that. If you're willing to point out specific examples, I'd like to understand what I'm doing so I can make adjustments. Mail to rsc@golang.org is probably best, since this is getting a bit off-topic, but a reply here is fine too. Thanks.